Rovers v Sunderland

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mancrover
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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by mancrover » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:56 pm

totally agree that we need to send simpson packing, no wonder he's nowhere near the utd first team. I just want him to play players in there real positions. how the hell can we ever hope to get any continuity with the constant lottery of a team selection we get every week. I bet everyone on this on this forum could predict next weeks team and not one of would get it right its that unpredictable god knows what the players are thinking going into training on monday and wandering what role they'll be asked to play this week.

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Simon
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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by Simon » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:27 pm

Where do you begin on that 2nd half. We conceded early on and then looked far too rushed and panicky on the ball and lost our heads when under pressure. Unlike against Chelsea where we decided to pass the ball round in midfield, with no result, today we decided to be as direct as physically possible, with, again, no result.

We should probably be playing Pedersen (who was good today) on the right. We will get nowhere playing a left back and a holding player at home in the middle at home against Sunderland - we need some proper creativity, and if that means playing Villanueva when he looks out of his depth at times then so be it. Even Andrews in the middle would be better.

I don't know why Pedersen, who was playing the best I've seen him for a while, got taken off whilst Warnock and Moko were left in midfield. I don't know why Roberts came off when we needed someone to hold the ball up with the way we were playing. I don't know why we constantly keep putting Derbyshire on the right when it doesn't work.

The excuses are rapidly becoming very old and our performances quite simply need to improve. We are not too good to go down and this highly congested league is starting to spread out a bit and will soon be leaving us behind.

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by originalredrose » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:57 pm

Well first 15 mins we outplayed them, created chances that would have gone in any other day but our tempo slowed and we let them get back into the match, Samba's goal was most welcome but I think the turning point was Robinsons howler then we seemed to lose our heads once we went to a 4-5-1, players arguing amongst themselves is schoolboy stuff and even though Tugay steadied the ship it was too little too late, seemed to be the only player to put his foot on the ball and even though he's knocking on I think he should have started, Ince needs to take a long hard look at himself along with some of the players, I actually thought Roberts was disappointing. It's going to be hard going but lets try and get behind them at Ewood and generate some atmosphere, not easy at moment I know but support away at Bolton was cracking and if we can get that going at Ewood we can be that extra man, we're better than this.

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by Archie's Dad » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:29 pm

Thank the Christ that I'm not alone in this. I've been banging on for weeks about this pig's ear of a team & now people are finally recognising that Ince just doesn't have a clue what he's doing.

Left back in centre midfield.
Willing but godaweful left back preferred to above.
Right footed centre half at left back.
Hopeless loanee at right back.
4th division player in centre midfield.
Can't score, can't hold the ball up, can't create chances striker up front (& given extended contract!!!)
Best finisher on bench. Then on right wing. Persistently.
No creativity in side.
Constant blaming of (i) pesky internationals getting in the way of good training ground endeavour
(ii) luck not being on our side
(iii) we're playing some good stuff but not getting our rewards (!!!!!!)
Let's take a lucky dip as to what the line up may be this week. And another dip as to where they may actually play.
Putting a player into the (albeit League Cup) starting line up who has had minutes (not hours) of reserve team action this season just smacks of a manager who has absolutely no idea what is going on & has no clear vision as to where he is going.

This is just initial analysis. Even Souness could get more out of his team than this. Really. No, Ince is in his early days. Think of early doors Souness & compare. Not how he left us, but how he dragged us up. And I don't particularly like Souness.

Ince inherited the template of a decent side. I do not understand anyone who says that this is a team "in transition." If I could see the direction we are taking, then I would hold fire but, and I must emphasise this point, THERE IS NO DIRECTION. Really. None. I've never seen a manager so comprehensively take a squad and undermine/screw it up/dismantle it. Without having any particular vision as to how it should be replaced.

A new manager now would have a month to assess the squad before the transfer window opens. Any later & we're screwed.

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by doz_magic_man » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:32 am

We took a gamble on Ince being the next Sparky and so far it hasn't really paid off. He simply lacks intelligence and we're not some sort of development school for budding young managers where you can make endless mistakes culminating in relegtion. Total lack of analysis of our glaring faults, pointing out the obvious and blaming insufficient luck smacks of cluelessness. Our assistant is now talking about our "character" which will lead us through this slump. I'm just waiting for the old "roll our sleeves up" chestnut and we are back in the Souness shite.

Yes we have injuries and yes coaches need time, but this guy has had nearly six months and he STILL can't pick a settled side or formation. If we're bottom of the league come December (quite likely given the next few games) then he and his mickey mouse coaching staff have to go. I'm not prepared to see my side get relegated so somebody can learn his trade.

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by mrblackbat » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:21 am

Dr Rover wrote:Playing players out of position is never going to work in the long term.

We had a centre half playing in midfield, a left back in central midfield, a right back at left back, a centre midfielder playing on the right wing and a joker upfront. Then we brought Derbyshire on and played him right wing even though he has shown time and time and time and time and time again that it doesnt work. Add to that the fact Simpson is utter shit at right back, we are are in real bad shape.

But, the most disappointing thing for me is that when Sunderland got in the ascendancy in the second half, not one of our players realised they had to get their foot on the ball and just pass it simple. Everyone was trying to go for the killer ball everytime and all that led to was really us lumping it upto Roque.

We may have a lot of injuries but there is no excuse for a performance like that
Sorry, but Mokoena has never been a centre half. He's covered there, badly, but there's no way you could call him a centre back.

Other than that, fair enough analysis.

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by Willy » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:37 pm

But would you really call Mokoena a defensive midfielder, either? :-?

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by Ethiaa » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:05 pm

mrblackbat wrote:No I think he'll have seen how poor he's been and drop him now that we have a full complement of defenders available. The Mokoena inclusion and Warnock back to left back is perhaps a little optimistic on my part however.
I won.

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by roversmillsy » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:10 pm

Incey's tactics remind of one manager. Brian Kidd. He has 10 men behind the ball even when we have it!! We just play the ball sideways, sideways, backwards to robbo and then smash ball over half way line and hope that there defender misses a header. It really :xxx: me off that for a playerwho had experience as a footballer with Manure, Inter, Liverpool and England is an absolute piece of :xxx: when it comes to football management.

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by mrblackbat » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:16 pm

ethiaa wrote:
mrblackbat wrote:No I think he'll have seen how poor he's been and drop him now that we have a full complement of defenders available. The Mokoena inclusion and Warnock back to left back is perhaps a little optimistic on my part however.
I won.
Indeed. And Simpson's performance showed why I should have done. :(

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by garnersfreshpint » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:46 pm

you guys are fucking unbeleive-able...

who would you prefer? when we sack this "mickey mouse" coaching squad (Paul Ince, Ray Mathias, Archie Knox and Nigel Winterburn)

Allardyce? Curbishley?

Remember the reason why we were relegated all them years ago, was the disruption of sacking a perfectly good manager on a barren run, and replacing with a spendthrift moron... is that what you would prefer? You have to give ince time, you cannot say that he is "clueless" because he is trying something different. Not one mention of the improved set pieces of yesterday. Yes... I am just as upset of what happened yesterday but you cannot judge a manager on 90 minutes.... And even if you did the first 45 minutes would make ince a world beater. You cannot judge a manager on 6 months either, considering we have only played around a dozen games. He is dealing with the problems that he has. How many teams do you think would bounce immediatley back from losing a long term manager, and two of there best players? You cannot replace friedel, who would have saved us at least a point yesterday and all the boo boys would be praising our ability to hold on to a lead. And for a club the size of ours, who cannot pay over the odds for players (especially in this financial climate) for the sake of going into debt. For christ sake, half the championship have more spending power than us. How you can slate andrews is beyond me. Would you prefer us to spend 5 million on teemu tanio and steed malabranque? who were equally non existent yesterday? the choice is yours..

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by mrblackbat » Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:48 pm

I'd have liked to see us try to replace Bentley, mind.

I'm not calling for his head just yet, but we're in for one hell of a tough season now; and it's not helped by a spate of poor selection problems and constantly playing players out of position. Yes, we have injury problems, but that's the time when we really need to buckle down and put our best players in their best positions, and put the fillers in the positions left to fill, rather than putting the likes of Warnock in midfield and leaving us with a kid or a centre half/right back at left back. We've got nobody to play on the right wing, and that has to be leveled at Ince for not replacing Bentley, regardless of whether Pennant turned us down or not we should have had a fall back plan. We weren't as much a one man side as the hole Bentley has left would suggest last year. Whoever it was said that there's a distinct lack of a plan has it nailed on the head, you really can't see what Ince is trying to achieve in terms of style of football.

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by doz_magic_man » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:23 pm

garnersfreshpint wrote:you guys are fucking unbeleive-able...

who would you prefer? when we sack this "mickey mouse" coaching squad (Paul Ince, Ray Mathias, Archie Knox and Nigel Winterburn)

Allardyce? Curbishley?

Allardyce was my preferred choice once Laudrup went out of the picture and we could do a lot worse than Curbishley.

I'm not saying we should sack Ince now; I'm saying that if we lose our next couple of games and end up bottom of the league come December then the board have to act.

And yes, the coaching staff are largely "Mickey Mouse". Mathias is a lower league stalwart, Winterburn is a tv pundit and Knox was released by Gary Megson of all people. The coaching set-up pales in comparison to Bowen, Hitchcock et al.

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by blackburn35 » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:28 pm

hull 1-0 ManC. Hughes will be sacked soon. you always know that is coming when the owners give their manager
the dreaded "vote of confidence". i say we bury the hatchet and hire Hughes back. what say ye? i know it will never happen but i do think we need a coaching change. it didn't take tottenham that long to make the change we should do the same.

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Re: Rovers v Sunderland

Post by Dr Rover » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:48 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Dr Rover wrote:Playing players out of position is never going to work in the long term.

We had a centre half playing in midfield, a left back in central midfield, a right back at left back, a centre midfielder playing on the right wing and a joker upfront. Then we brought Derbyshire on and played him right wing even though he has shown time and time and time and time and time again that it doesnt work. Add to that the fact Simpson is utter shit at right back, we are are in real bad shape.

But, the most disappointing thing for me is that when Sunderland got in the ascendancy in the second half, not one of our players realised they had to get their foot on the ball and just pass it simple. Everyone was trying to go for the killer ball everytime and all that led to was really us lumping it upto Roque.

We may have a lot of injuries but there is no excuse for a performance like that
Sorry, but Mokoena has never been a centre half. He's covered there, badly, but there's no way you could call him a centre back.

Other than that, fair enough analysis.

You don't need to be sorry that you are wrong mate ;)

I'm pretty sure if YOU were to ask Mokoena where his best position was, he;d say centre half. I know this cause I have asked it him myself. Whether he is good enough to play in the premiership at centre half is another story - but in my opinion he isnt good enough to play as a defensive midfieler in the premiership. Also, he pretty much played exclusively as a centre half before joining us.

Anyway, that is a pointless debate. The real thing of concern is that the team arnt playing anywhere near their potential. Taking no notice of the very serious problems we have a the club is a one way street to relegation. That isnt to say that I want Ince sacked - but I do want to see him making better decisions. Starting off with playing players in their actual positions

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