Bowyer leaves the club

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RoryoftheRovers
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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by RoryoftheRovers » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:55 am

Rovers76 wrote:I have it from a good source with ties to the club that if shebby (yes shebby is still involved with the club) gets his way then we will be getting a new manager from India, who has acquired all the correct qualifications.
I hope this isn't true but with venki's past record I am some what sceptical and pray this doesn't happen.
But with our club, these owners don't seem to have any clue, hopefully shaw will have intelligent input but has got his way in the past that hasn't worked out, Appleton etc
I am worried.
Bowyer was doing ok steadying the club, not only the team, feel very sorry for the guy.
Fingers crossed this info doesn't come true and we get a proven manager.

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Bullshit from a secret Dingle?

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Ethiaa
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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by Ethiaa » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:57 am

Don't be silly, those are (mostly) well formed sentences. We are all concerned that the appointment is the right one. I don't think spreading rumours about Shebby Singh (who hasn't been seen at Ewood for several years) is all that helpful to anyone however.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by -BARON-23- » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:00 am

Rover the Top wrote:Idiots. Whilst no one wants to see us off the pace in midtable, you can't sell off two of our best players for financial reasons without being able to buy replacements and have realistic expectations of an improvement. We are under an embargo. Regardless of whether it's fair or not, it's a punishment that's meant to handicap our ability to compete in this league. If it had no effect, the league wouldn't bother with it. With the coaching staff gone too, I wonder if Shaw has lined up his mate for a quick return to management. But really, what's the point? Whoever takes over will be restricted to a small group of average group of Championship players, with no prospect of being able to build around the few jewels in the squad. Despite the constant criticisms of Bowyer, we've been limiting opponents' chances whilst creating enough of our own to win more matches. The problem hasn't been the manager, but the quality available to him.

Whoever takes over is being asked to go for promotion without the tools to do it. In reality, they'll do well if they manage to avoid relegation.

:x :x :x
I'd hardly say win more matches. We've won two in 10/11 games.

Don't get me wrong, i wouldn't have sacked Bowyer as any manager would struggle under the embargo etc but the results were not exactly peachy.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:03 am

-BARON-23- wrote:
Rover the Top wrote:Idiots. Whilst no one wants to see us off the pace in midtable, you can't sell off two of our best players for financial reasons without being able to buy replacements and have realistic expectations of an improvement. We are under an embargo. Regardless of whether it's fair or not, it's a punishment that's meant to handicap our ability to compete in this league. If it had no effect, the league wouldn't bother with it. With the coaching staff gone too, I wonder if Shaw has lined up his mate for a quick return to management. But really, what's the point? Whoever takes over will be restricted to a small group of average group of Championship players, with no prospect of being able to build around the few jewels in the squad. Despite the constant criticisms of Bowyer, we've been limiting opponents' chances whilst creating enough of our own to win more matches. The problem hasn't been the manager, but the quality available to him.

Whoever takes over is being asked to go for promotion without the tools to do it. In reality, they'll do well if they manage to avoid relegation.

:x :x :x
I'd hardly say win more matches. We've won two in 10/11 games.
And? How many of those could have been wins if things beyond the manager's control had been different - ie key refereeing decisions, defenders' mistakes, attackers' misses. Take the Burnley game as an example - from as far as the managers' influence can stretch, we were the better side; we created the clear chances and had an effective defensive shape. We lost because at the key moments, players didn't deliver. You can't honestly say Lawrence would have scored that chance or Evans wouldn't have made that awful header if someone else was on the touchline instead of Bowyer. It's what pisses me off when people say management is all about results, especially when looking at just a short-term period. It's fucked up to sack someone for not winning an arbitrary number of games without analysing why they weren't won.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by mcteeth » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:10 pm

Was really shocked when I saw the news last night and today feel quite sad and disappointed about it. As much as last season did piss me off more often that not through sheer frustration, I really like the guy and the timing seems really bizarre. He underachieved last season in the eyes of many and I suspect that was playing on Venky's minds coupled with a faltering start this season to a degree.

If someone comes in and pushes us forward then great, if it backfires I think things could get really bad.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by theadore » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:23 pm

Shame for Bowyer... I was fairly ambivalent this season based on results, but having watched us play a couple of games had reinforced the view that Bowyer knew what he was doing. He has us playing decent football with a makeshift squad and I was confident that results would come.

Its just the way modern football is... (the Guardians headline reads "Bowyer sacked after less than 3 years in charge" - as if this were somehow and anomaly in football) and I don't have a great deal of complaint. Hopefully Lambert will prove a new broom for the club and perhaps get the required rise out of the players needed to push into the top half.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by -BARON-23- » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:49 pm

Rover the Top wrote: And? How many of those could have been wins if things beyond the manager's control had been different - ie key refereeing decisions, defenders' mistakes, attackers' misses. Take the Burnley game as an example - from as far as the managers' influence can stretch, we were the better side; we created the clear chances and had an effective defensive shape. We lost because at the key moments, players didn't deliver. You can't honestly say Lawrence would have scored that chance or Evans wouldn't have made that awful header if someone else was on the touchline instead of Bowyer. It's what pisses me off when people say management is all about results, especially when looking at just a short-term period. It's fucked up to sack someone for not winning an arbitrary number of games without analysing why they weren't won.
But there's only so long you can look at say "we lost this game because so and so made that mistake". I understand at the start of the season the ref cost us in two games (Wolves and Fulham) and things like that are supposed to even themselves out over the season (still waiting for that refs) but if we went down this season we couldnt just say of we'd have stayed up if Evans didn't do that poor header.

I'm not trying to have an argument here, just saying i see why they have jumped the gun and called time on his tenure here. Personally i'd have waited until after January to see if a) we'd got out the embargo and see if he'd had chance to improve the squad and b) he'd have had plenty of time to set the tone for the season.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:22 pm

-BARON-23- wrote: But there's only so long you can look at say "we lost this game because so and so made that mistake". I understand at the start of the season the ref cost us in two games (Wolves and Fulham) and things like that are supposed to even themselves out over the season (still waiting for that refs) but if we went down this season we couldnt just say of we'd have stayed up if Evans didn't do that poor header.
You miss the point. What is the manager supposed to do about refereeing mistakes and player errors? He can't do anything about the former and can only do something about the latter if he can replace mistake-prone and out-of-form players. Those things are still going to happen with a different manager, so why sack the current one because of them? It's a moronic approach that is rife in football, the majority of sacked managers seem to be taking the blame for other people's fuck ups, and often clubs end up with a high turnover of managers whilst finding themselves sinking down the league tables.

As an aside, the "even themselves out" thing is bullshit, and hardly much help to Bowyer now, is it? :shrug:

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by -BARON-23- » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:27 pm

But my point is how long can we keep blaming other people's mistakes before we look at the fact we only won three games this season? I know what you mean but if you lose every single game of the season due to a player error the manager has to take the blame at some point. It's been clear our team struggles to concentrate for a full 90 minutes for a long time now and that's reflected in the amount of errors the team makes.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:57 pm

-BARON-23- wrote:But my point is how long can we keep blaming other people's mistakes before we look at the fact we only won three games this season? I know what you mean but if you lose every single game of the season due to a player error the manager has to take the blame at some point. It's been clear our team struggles to concentrate for a full 90 minutes for a long time now and that's reflected in the amount of errors the team makes.
If players keep making costly errors, but the manager doesn't have any other option but to keep picking them, why is he to blame? He's not controlling them like in a computer game. He's not telling them to slip up. And another manager is just going to be in the same situation. The new manager is still going to have the same group of error-prone players to work with.

Address the source of the problem, don't just do something because it's what everyone else does when things aren't working.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by Ethiaa » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:02 pm

All of which assumes that two managers will play the same players and the same formation so that the game plays out in a similar fashion. I guess that the owners are hoping a different approach from the off will make the difference.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by ariversider » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:32 pm

Sorry but just thought I'd throw my two penniworth in.

I think Bowyer has done as good a job as good be done given the resources he's had to work with. I also feel that his lack of tactical nouse has been found out especially as he hasn't now got Rudy to fire the ball up front for the last minute equaliser/winner as happened so often last season. Not his fault but just an observation.

However, given we have sacked the complete coaching staff as well as the manager - this suggests that there is somebody lined up to come with their own team. The papers and bookmakers appear to be suggesting it will be Lambert (not my first choice) but given he failed at Aston Villa in his last job a failure here on his CV would probably signify the end of his managerial career, certainly at the highest level.

So, if he is appointed this would then lead me to believe he has been promised significant funds to improve the squad. Shaw mentioned we were only 1 significant sale (£5million I think) away from having the embargo lifted. Afterall would you come to a club with no funds available, a team that is under achieving and owners that are potty to say the least, to try and save your reputation. I also note that Lowe (although injured) has been linked with a move to West Brom for £5million (I'd snap their hands off). Co-incidence!!!

The timing will also allow the new man to come in and assess the squad prior to the transfer window opening.

Maybe it's just me and wishfull thinking but the scenario does seem (to me at least to have been thought about)

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by -BARON-23- » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:49 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
-BARON-23- wrote:But my point is how long can we keep blaming other people's mistakes before we look at the fact we only won three games this season? I know what you mean but if you lose every single game of the season due to a player error the manager has to take the blame at some point. It's been clear our team struggles to concentrate for a full 90 minutes for a long time now and that's reflected in the amount of errors the team makes.
If players keep making costly errors, but the manager doesn't have any other option but to keep picking them, why is he to blame? He's not controlling them like in a computer game. He's not telling them to slip up. And another manager is just going to be in the same situation. The new manager is still going to have the same group of error-prone players to work with.

Address the source of the problem, don't just do something because it's what everyone else does when things aren't working.
IF and i say IF Lambert comes in, results improve and player errors decrease then it could easily be linked to concentration levels which perhaps Bowyer couldn't cut out. It's been a problem for a couple of seasons and for long periods in games under Bowyer we only seemed to play well for short periods of time. I still would have liked to see Bowyer stay at the club in some capacity too.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by rovertilidie » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:17 am

First time I think I can't be arsed anymore. That's saying something since what has happened over the last few years. Good luck bowyer gutted for him. Can't see the next one doing any better.

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Re: Bowyer leaves the club

Post by Savory » Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:36 am

State of some of the comments in here :lol:

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