Is it time for owen to go??? Well he's gone

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Rover the Top
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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:20 pm

mrblackbat wrote:Not at all, just find your ultra pedantic, nitpicking posting style ever more boring.
So that's four posts on me now, none replying to the point I made. :roll: I assume that means you don't actually disagree that different owners could approach the FFP problem in another (better) way?

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:58 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
mrblackbat wrote:Not at all, just find your ultra pedantic, nitpicking posting style ever more boring.
So that's four posts on me now, none replying to the point I made. :roll: I assume that means you don't actually disagree that different owners could approach the FFP problem in another (better) way?
Cause you've paid attention to any of mine? I made my point: Darth's post puts the blame firmly at the feet of Venkys, I put it firmly at the feet of the unfair rules.

No, I don't think new owners could do much better than the current owners two strategies employed: first one to try and buy out of it and take the hit (got slated by the fans); second try and balance the books (got slated by the fans). The issue is not with the owners.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:35 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Rover the Top wrote:
mrblackbat wrote:Not at all, just find your ultra pedantic, nitpicking posting style ever more boring.
So that's four posts on me now, none replying to the point I made. :roll: I assume that means you don't actually disagree that different owners could approach the FFP problem in another (better) way?
Cause you've paid attention to any of mine? I made my point: Darth's post puts the blame firmly at the feet of Venkys, I put it firmly at the feet of the unfair rules.

No, I don't think new owners could do much better than the current owners two strategies employed: first one to try and buy out of it and take the hit (got slated by the fans); second try and balance the books (got slated by the fans). The issue is not with the owners.
And yet other clubs are affected by the same rules yet are not as hamstrung as us? I find it hard to believe every conceivable alternative would sack the manager keeping us relatively competitive whilst appreciating the value of his bargain buys. I find it hard to believe every conceivable alternative would appoint an ex-Burnley manager. I find it hard to believe every conceivable alternative would have the same revolving door approach to the boardroom. A lot of the criticism levelled at them is nonsense, but there's still been some idiotic decisions with predictable outcomes. And they get flaky at the strangest moments.

Darth said the owners going wouldn't solve everything but it's a step in the right direction. He's right, because whether directly to blame or not, Venky's ownership is poisoning the club and only taking us downwards. I think they've been treated unfairly by many of our fans, but they're still intrinsically part of the problem. We're heading down to League 1 and I don't see how they're going to make things better.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:54 pm

But Bolton and Wigan are. The two clubs who, along with us, had zero time to adapt their operating model to the new rules, whilst being relegated into them.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:57 pm

mrblackbat wrote:But Bolton and Wigan are. The two clubs who, along with us, had zero time to adapt their operating model to the new rules, whilst being relegated into them.
Good point, but I'm sure you're also aware of the significant differences too. You could look at Wolves, Fulham, QPR, Reading too for example.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by Darth Rover » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:43 pm

Guys sorry i started an argument but forgive me if i am wrong but if Venky's put the club up for sale surely that would mean Venkys would be after the 40 odd million they paid for the club plus the outstanding debt to them which i assume is around the 100 million mark. Again assuming that a buyer could be found to stump up 140 million or so for the club wouldn't that mean that Rovers would have a new owner and more importantly zero debt. Wouldn't that mean Rovers won't fall foul of FFP restrictions. How much are championship club going for these days.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by WacoRover » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:53 pm

Darth Rover wrote:Guys sorry i started an argument but forgive me if i am wrong but if Venky's put the club up for sale surely that would mean Venkys would be after the 40 odd million they paid for the club plus the outstanding debt to them which i assume is around the 100 million mark. Again assuming that a buyer could be found to stump up 140 million or so for the club wouldn't that mean that Rovers would have a new owner and more importantly zero debt. Wouldn't that mean Rovers won't fall foul of FFP restrictions. How much are championship club going for these days.
This is the heart of the matter.

The current owners continue to infuse needed money into the operation, but do nothing to contribute value to the club. Many of our fans, right or wrong, want nothing to do with them, until they have new owners (ostensibly, to be critical of them, as well!)

There are no answers, let alone, easy ones. But I tend to agree with you- new owners might bring a new sense of enthusiasm back to the club, meaning fans, meaning money.

Whether or not 140 mil would get Rovers where they could go out & buy good players, I have no idea.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by Darth Rover » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:55 pm

Rovers had 21 million pounds worth of debt when Venky's took over. The sale of the club to Venky's was said to be 23 million. You can argue that any sale of the club should only be what the club is valued at. As for the 100 million pound debt that is Venkys problem. They should just take what they can get for the club and put the rest down to experience.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by WacoRover » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:11 pm

Exactly... there are potential losses and/or gains in any business. Sports businesses are as volatile as anything else.

However, I don't believe their 100 mil debt is all that is keeping Blackburn Rovers from getting new/better players.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by WacoRover » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:01 pm

Thinking back to better times...
4 years ago today, Rovers win at Emirates. That was the year I became a fan of Blackburn Rovers.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:12 pm

Darth Rover wrote:Guys sorry i started an argument but forgive me if i am wrong but if Venky's put the club up for sale surely that would mean Venkys would be after the 40 odd million they paid for the club plus the outstanding debt to them which i assume is around the 100 million mark. Again assuming that a buyer could be found to stump up 140 million or so for the club wouldn't that mean that Rovers would have a new owner and more importantly zero debt. Wouldn't that mean Rovers won't fall foul of FFP restrictions. How much are championship club going for these days.
Basically, no. The rules have changed since we were punished, but I think they're still based on profits rather than debt. I think the debt only becomes a problem if venkys write it off.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by WacoRover » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:27 pm

Once again, if true, our boycotting fans are merely hurting the club. And, loud, raucous fans, no matter the team's record, would certainly be more enticing to potential buyers, than a 2/3 empty Ewood.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by RoverSteve » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:06 am

On the subject of Owen Coyle, I think he'll be gone by the end of the season if we get relegated or not. I dont think the fans were ever really behind him, and if i'm being honest i don't see any incentive for him to stay. Bad management structure, seemingly very little wiggle room or influence on the players we end up with. Like Lambert his reputation is just going to take a battering.

As far as the owners selling up, I'm not really too knowledgeable about gambling, but we seem very much a "Stick or Twist" proposition, either invest and get us in better shape, or get out.

Arsenal have a business model whereby they're one of the few clubs that make a profit, but Stan Kronenke has struggled with his other sports endeavors. You can be a good businessman/woman and still fail. The trick is being able to notice and do something about it. As bad as it sounds, maybe relegation to league 1 (which is something i still think we can beat) would be the straw that breaks the camels back.

what a mess eh?

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by yankfan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:27 am

Darth Rover wrote:Rovers had 21 million pounds worth of debt when Venky's took over. The sale of the club to Venky's was said to be 23 million. You can argue that any sale of the club should only be what the club is valued at. As for the 100 million pound debt that is Venkys problem. They should just take what they can get for the club and put the rest down to experience.
Who would pay more than its worth? It matters not what they paid or what they put in. When they bought the club it was a premier league squad with a history matched by few others. Now it's a soon to be league 1 squad with a disenfranchised group of supports, 100 mm pounds in debt, few senior players that are valuable adsets, and a reputation for a poor board room.

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Re: Is it time for owen to go???

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:44 am

WacoRover wrote:Exactly... there are potential losses and/or gains in any business. Sports businesses are as volatile as anything else.

However, I don't believe their 100 mil debt is all that is keeping Blackburn Rovers from getting new/better players.
No, the fact that the money in football is so imbalanced is contributing a major factor; combines with the low natural pull for the club from the surrounding area.

Fans being dicks don't help either, nor the mercenary nature of modern footballers and their bloodsucking agents.

But having 100 million of debt makes making a profit extremely difficult.

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