Tony Mowbray

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Ethiaa
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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by Ethiaa » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:17 pm

No more strange than suggesting that speculation about what might have happened if any given manager had stayed at the club is some kind of fact.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:03 pm

onlyonejackwalker wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:50 pm
Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:54 pm
Position when Hughes resigned: Premier League, 7th
Position when Ince sacked: Premier League, 19th.
Position when Allardyce sacked: Premier League, 13th
Position when Kean resigned: Championship, 3rd
Position when Berg sacked: Championship, 16th
Position when Appleton sacked: Championship, 15th
Position when Bowyer sacked: Championship, 16th
Position when Lambert announced he was walking away: Championship,18th
Position when Coyle sacked: Championship, 22nd.
Current position: Championship, 22nd.

Something odd going on if every manager is improving on his predecessor... :yeahright:
We would have been relegated sooner if no improvement had been shown. Allardyce improved us and kept us up, Bowyer
prevented us going down after Berg, Lambert prevented us going down after Bowyer, hopefully Mowbray saves us this time round.

That list makes the decision to sack Allardyce look even more stupid and ill-conceived. These clowns must like losing millions.

So Kean did resign. Others still believe he was sacked for some reason.
I know you come across as being naive at times, but surely even you realise that managers don't just walk out on a job as their mood takes them... "Forced to resign" was the phrase he used, and the club settled with him for contructive dismissal, I believe...

We shouldn't have sacked Allardyce, we shouldn't have sacked anyone (with the exception of Ince, who needed sacking for the sake of his own sanity). There's few instances of it happening in football anymore, but clubs who stick with managers tend to do well over time. But it seems to be the way now that half of clubs change the boss if they have a bad month. It's stupid short-termism, it stops the club from building over time and you can see with us we're in a slow decline with all the chopping and changing. Rovers are in the bottom 3 because we've been ripping ourselves apart from the inside. Managers have become incidental.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:16 pm

onlyonejackwalker wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:17 pm
mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:09 pm
I didn't realise being 22nd but having fired your manager gave you an exemption from relegation.... ;)
:) Made me laugh. Well you are right it doesn't. But we are playing catch up and trying to undo all Wee Coyles good work.
The thing is OOJW that you know full well the point I was trying to make by saying that changing managers was unlikely to be beneficial. I'm glad that so far it's turning out wrong, Mowbray is doing an excellent job so far, and we have a glimmer of hope of staying up; but we're still in the relegation zone, most of our players are still a bit lacking and the other clubs around us are still fighting hard to ensure we go down. We might just make it to stay up, if we beat two of our challengers.

The same could have happened with Coyle, but probably not; the big reason for me being that he's been picking Emnes regularly and Mulgrew is staying fit, but also, probably that the change has brought a lift from the fans and a bit of morale.

On the whole though, changing managers hasn't worked out for us for a long, long time. We've been on a downward spiral ever since a terrible decision to appoint Paul Ince, and the chopping and changing is not working. Both sets of administrators of the club haven't done well since Hughes left, resulting in us where we are now.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:19 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:03 pm
We shouldn't have sacked Allardyce,
Allardyce should always be sacked. 'Cause he's Allardyce.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:28 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:19 pm
Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:03 pm
We shouldn't have sacked Allardyce,
Allardyce should always be sacked. 'Cause he's Allardyce.
Nah, he shouldn't have been appointed because he's Allardyce. However, it's not a simple case of undoing that mistake by sacking him, that created more problems.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by onlyonejackwalker » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:45 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:03 pm
onlyonejackwalker wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:50 pm
Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:54 pm
Position when Hughes resigned: Premier League, 7th
Position when Ince sacked: Premier League, 19th.
Position when Allardyce sacked: Premier League, 13th
Position when Kean resigned: Championship, 3rd
Position when Berg sacked: Championship, 16th
Position when Appleton sacked: Championship, 15th
Position when Bowyer sacked: Championship, 16th
Position when Lambert announced he was walking away: Championship,18th
Position when Coyle sacked: Championship, 22nd.
Current position: Championship, 22nd.

Something odd going on if every manager is improving on his predecessor... :yeahright:
We would have been relegated sooner if no improvement had been shown. Allardyce improved us and kept us up, Bowyer
prevented us going down after Berg, Lambert prevented us going down after Bowyer, hopefully Mowbray saves us this time round.

That list makes the decision to sack Allardyce look even more stupid and ill-conceived. These clowns must like losing millions.

So Kean did resign. Others still believe he was sacked for some reason.
I know you come across as being naive at times, but surely even you realise that managers don't just walk out on a job as their mood takes them... "Forced to resign" was the phrase he used, and the club settled with him for contructive dismissal, I believe...

We shouldn't have sacked Allardyce, we shouldn't have sacked anyone (with the exception of Ince, who needed sacking for the sake of his own sanity). There's few instances of it happening in football anymore, but clubs who stick with managers tend to do well over time. But it seems to be the way now that half of clubs change the boss if they have a bad month. It's stupid short-termism, it stops the club from building over time and you can see with us we're in a slow decline with all the chopping and changing. Rovers are in the bottom 3 because we've been ripping ourselves apart from the inside. Managers have become incidental.
Didn't take you long to start being a meany RTT! :)

Personally I believe Kean left exactly when he wanted on his own terms. Looked far better on his record him leaving when he did, being relatively well placed in the league after 5 or 6 games. As long as you forgot he had taken us down of course. Not that anyone fell for it, hence him being shuttled out to no mans land.

Of course we shouldn't have sacked Allardyce. But Kean needed to go after taking us down and Black, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer and Coyle clearly all needed to go to avoid relegation concerns in the Division lower. I know you were a fan of Bowyer but he failed to meet targets and 17 points from 16 games was Coyle like in his last season. It was never a push for 9th and he was targeted with the play-offs.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by onlyonejackwalker » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:54 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:16 pm
onlyonejackwalker wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:17 pm
mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:09 pm
I didn't realise being 22nd but having fired your manager gave you an exemption from relegation.... ;)
:) Made me laugh. Well you are right it doesn't. But we are playing catch up and trying to undo all Wee Coyles good work.
The thing is OOJW that you know full well the point I was trying to make by saying that changing managers was unlikely to be beneficial. I'm glad that so far it's turning out wrong, Mowbray is doing an excellent job so far, and we have a glimmer of hope of staying up; but we're still in the relegation zone, most of our players are still a bit lacking and the other clubs around us are still fighting hard to ensure we go down. We might just make it to stay up, if we beat two of our challengers.

The same could have happened with Coyle, but probably not; the big reason for me being that he's been picking Emnes regularly and Mulgrew is staying fit, but also, probably that the change has brought a lift from the fans and a bit of morale.

On the whole though, changing managers hasn't worked out for us for a long, long time. We've been on a downward spiral ever since a terrible decision to appoint Paul Ince, and the chopping and changing is not working. Both sets of administrators of the club haven't done well since Hughes left, resulting in us where we are now.
Yes BB, I understood, but sleep-walking to relegation under Coyle would have been foolhardy. Most of the clubs lower down acted far quicker than we did in changing managers and most believe we should have sacked Coyle in November / December.

Cardiff were below us I think when they appointed Warnock and now have 51 points! I would imagine they are chuffed they changed.

I grew up supporting in an era where we rarely changed managers and I was proud of the support we provided to those we entrusted with the role. Things have changed considerably since then and average tenures for managers in all divisions is ridiculously low. To be fair, the owners supported Kean for a long time, then Bowyer for a long time as well and as mentioned Coyle for much longer than I could tolerate him. Fingers crossed Mowbray is viewed as a longer term appointment and we can break the current cycle of as many managers, in as many years.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:10 pm

Bowyer should never have been sacked. That was a shocker.

I also don't believe it would have been "sleepwalking to relegation", either.

Kean, once not sacked for taking us down, was doing a good job in the Championship. Would have been better had he stayed at that point. Berg was never given an adequate chance, nor Appleton.

Ince and Lambert, for me, are the ones that should have been fired for performance reasons. And Kean during the season he took us down.

And Allardyce, cause he's Allardyce.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by onlyonejackwalker » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:04 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:32 am
Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:12 am
But Lambert seems to be working his magic at Wolves
I'd love to see him take them down. I think,m actually, I might have more dislike for Lambert than Allardyce. Which is saying something.
Six wins in the last eight games, 54 points, 16th place and a game in hand. Decent manager now getting very good results. No surprise to me.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by mrblackbat » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:27 pm

He's not a decent manager. He's ok at best. Good run now doesn't make up for all his naffness previously.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by Gibbon » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:41 am

He was god awful for us, in many ways, and that's what really matters.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:06 am

:lol: I suppose the wretched time he had at Villa, the farce whilst he was here and the poor start he made with Wolves were just teething problems then? He's a fantastic manager, only taken him 5 years and 3 clubs to get a side winning more often than it loses... over 8 games... :lol:

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by onlyonejackwalker » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:02 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:06 am
:lol: I suppose the wretched time he had at Villa, the farce whilst he was here and the poor start he made with Wolves were just teething problems then? He's a fantastic manager, only taken him 5 years and 3 clubs to get a side winning more often than it loses... over 8 games... :lol:
Villa in the PL stopped spending, relegated Bent and others to the reserves, sold Young and Milner and asked Lambert to keep them up. Which he did. Which is why they carried on employing him. You presumably saw what happened at Villa the minute they sacked him and they are still at our level.

Bowyer was shite and taking us down. 3 wins in 16 matches, embarrassing league cup defeat, porous defence, unbalanced squad. Uninspiring bloke. But from some strange reason with absolutely nothing on his CV is heralded on here as some sort of footballing oracle. No surprise to me he had to drop a level to get a new job. Lambert improved us using Bowyers squad plus some bulk recruited in January, until it was obvious promises would not be kept. Classy guy left without a pay-off to another large club in the Midlands, at our level, unlike the aforementioned oracle.

You obviously think Lambert is useless and presumably think we will win at a canter. Cushty, we need all the points we can get and playing a team with such a crap manager can only help our Venky's induced trial and tribulations.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:43 pm

Bowyer didn't manage us for just 16 games, did he? :doh: 108 games, 38 wins to 30 defeats, a win ratio comaprable to your beloved Sam. And there's a good chance that would have been better had he not had to work under a transfer ban and strict squad restrictions for the last year, with key players being sold to make ends meet.

Lambert hardly improved us "using Bowyer's squad" - by the end of the transfer window, we'd actually dropped down a couple of places. With funds available he made a raft of signings, most of which I'd forgive you if you've forgotten them. And we improved by climbing a whole place higher in the table from where he'd started at . 30 games in charge, won 10, lost 12. His record at Wolves is looking pretty similar, won 11 and lost 11 having splashed out around £15m in January.

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Re: Tony Mowbray

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:53 pm

onlyonejackwalker wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:02 pm
Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:06 am
:lol: I suppose the wretched time he had at Villa, the farce whilst he was here and the poor start he made with Wolves were just teething problems then? He's a fantastic manager, only taken him 5 years and 3 clubs to get a side winning more often than it loses... over 8 games... :lol:
Villa in the PL stopped spending, relegated Bent and others to the reserves, sold Young and Milner and asked Lambert to keep them up. Which he did. Which is why they carried on employing him. You presumably saw what happened at Villa the minute they sacked him and they are still at our level.

Bowyer was shite and taking us down. 3 wins in 16 matches, embarrassing league cup defeat, porous defence, unbalanced squad. Uninspiring bloke. But from some strange reason with absolutely nothing on his CV is heralded on here as some sort of footballing oracle. No surprise to me he had to drop a level to get a new job. Lambert improved us using Bowyers squad plus some bulk recruited in January, until it was obvious promises would not be kept. Classy guy left without a pay-off to another large club in the Midlands, at our level, unlike the aforementioned oracle.

You obviously think Lambert is useless and presumably think we will win at a canter. Cushty, we need all the points we can get and playing a team with such a crap manager can only help our Venky's induced trial and tribulations.
Genuine question, what are you smoking?

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