Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Discuss all things Rovers related except...

Who helped move the Michael Jackson statue?

The Romans
0
No votes
Arable farmers
1
10%
A haven of kestrels
0
No votes
A whoop of gibbons
3
30%
Nordic bakers
0
No votes
The ghost of Michael Jackson
6
60%
 
Total votes: 10

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Rover the Top
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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:16 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:14 am

The kicker in American Football doesn't take freekicks after penalties though.
No one takes a freekick after a penalty in real football either? :shrug: Typo? Or do you mean 'penalty' as in 'foul'?

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:48 am

Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:16 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:14 am

The kicker in American Football doesn't take freekicks after penalties though.
No one takes a freekick after a penalty in real football either? :shrug: Typo? Or do you mean 'penalty' as in 'foul'?
A "penalty" in American Football is the equivalent of a foul. Much like it is in rugby.

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:17 am

Bit confusing to use the same word to mean something different when we were talking about penalty takers in football though? Especially since they don't call the resulting punishment a "freekick" in American Football... if a wide receiver is held, he doesn't become the quarterback for the next down.

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by Ethiaa » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:02 am

Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:17 am
Bit confusing to use the same word to mean something different when we were talking about penalty takers in football though? Especially since they don't call the resulting punishment a "freekick" in American Football... if a wide receiver is held, he doesn't become the quarterback for the next down.
Yeah, they should do that. Facemask on an offensive lineman? You're the QB next down fatboy. Or the kicker if you choose to kick.

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:17 am

I don't think it's confusing at all? What's confusing, if anything, is comparing a place kicker or punter in American Football with a penalty taker in football.

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:19 am

Ethiaa wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:02 am
Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:17 am
Bit confusing to use the same word to mean something different when we were talking about penalty takers in football though? Especially since they don't call the resulting punishment a "freekick" in American Football... if a wide receiver is held, he doesn't become the quarterback for the next down.
Yeah, they should do that. Facemask on an offensive lineman? You're the QB next down fatboy. Or the kicker if you choose to kick.
I would definitely watch that.

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:22 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:17 am
I don't think it's confusing at all? What's confusing, if anything, is comparing a place kicker or punter in American Football with a penalty taker in football.
Which, of course, you'll no doubt deny you did, despite bringing up kickers in American Football in a conversation about having the player who was impeded having to take the resulting compensative action (e.g. freekick, penalty etc), because you didn't explicitly say "a place kicker in the NFL is like a penalty taker in football), just brought it up in the manner that someone would do when conversationally comparing something.

Or something. :shrug:

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:56 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:22 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:17 am
I don't think it's confusing at all? What's confusing, if anything, is comparing a place kicker or punter in American Football with a penalty taker in football.
Which, of course, you'll no doubt deny you did, despite bringing up kickers in American Football in a conversation about having the player who was impeded having to take the resulting compensative action (e.g. freekick, penalty etc), because you didn't explicitly say "a place kicker in the NFL is like a penalty taker in football), just brought it up in the manner that someone would do when conversationally comparing something.

Or something. :shrug:
Say what? Are you confusing yourself now?

As was mentioned at the start of the conversation, football teams tend to have nominated penalty takers (and free kick takers when within range of goal). It's a chance to score a goal (or point if you want to continue mixing terminology) from a specific situation, if you can you hand that chance to your specialist. Like you would with a conversion in rugby, or a field goal in American Football. Failing to follow that comparison on the grounds that the rules in the sports are fundamentally different is a bit Hatty-esque...

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:22 pm

No.

Your comparison there is comparing place kickers to strikers. Strikers score you goals, place kickers score you points from a given situation. (as do quarter backs, wide receivers, running backs; and so do wingers and so on).

However, this discussion was revolving around infringements: why doesn't the player fouled have to take the penalty (or free kick). The direct comparison to that situation in American Football is a penalty (the same applies in football ). Therefore, bringing up kickers is ridiculous; they have absolutely no involvement with a penalty (i.e. an infringement) in their sport.

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:45 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:22 pm
Therefore, bringing up kickers is ridiculous; they have absolutely no involvement with a penalty (i.e. an infringement) in their sport.
Nor do penalty takers in football. That's the whole point, the player who takes the kick is the person the team chooses to take it. How that particular set piece situation has arisen is irrelevant to who takes it (see earlier point about hand-balling to stop an own goal).

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:22 pm

Penalty takers in football to the ensuing action from a foul.

Kickers in American football do not.

We were discussing why the penalty taker can be a different player from the fouled player.

Your comparison doesn't work.

It'd work if you said that the quarterback takes the next snap after the penalty. Instead, you're doing the equivalent of talking about who takes a goal kick or a kick off alongside why a player who's fouled should, or should not have to take the penalty/freekick awarded. Comparing apples and oranges. :shrug:

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:49 pm

:lol: You've got tunnel vision on this... what happens in football and why has been covered. Theadore then gave an example of sport where the fouled player restarts the game. I gave a counter example of a sport on the other extreme where teams have players who are only used for specific set play situations. If you want to be so anally pedantic, you don't even have a penatly kick in American Football, you don't kick the ball into the net, you don't have a goalkeeper, etc. But that's rather spectacularly missing the point... :D

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by Ethiaa » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:06 pm

Maybe they should have a goalkeeper on stilts to knock away field goal attempts. With appropriate gloves on :yeahright:

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:14 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:49 pm
:lol: You've got tunnel vision on this... what happens in football and why has been covered. Theadore then gave an example of sport where the fouled player restarts the game. I gave a counter example of a sport on the other extreme where teams have players who are only used for specific set play situations. If you want to be so anally pedantic, you don't even have a penatly kick in American Football, you don't kick the ball into the net, you don't have a goalkeeper, etc. But that's rather spectacularly missing the point... :D
Riiiiiight.

So why even bringing up a kicker at all? If you're going to start talking about something that has nothing to do with the discussion (unlike theadore, who was still discussing the outcome of an infringment), why not start talking about that they use a bat in cricket, or swim with a swimming cap on? Has as much relevance as your point.

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Re: Fulham v Rovers, Tuesday 14th March 2017, 7.45pm

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:16 pm

Ethiaa wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:06 pm
Maybe they should have a goalkeeper on stilts to knock away field goal attempts. With appropriate gloves on :yeahright:

Image
I would also watch that.

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