Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Discuss all things Rovers related except...

What is your favourite maritime pastime?

Shrimping with Shrimpers
0
No votes
Crabbing with Crabbers
1
14%
Kestrel fishing on the Essex riviera
1
14%
Windsurfing with Gibbons
4
57%
Skimming select items of Nordic bakeware
0
No votes
Counting grains of sand in the presence of Igor Tudor
1
14%
Discussing the virtues of sand-based arable farming
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 7

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Rover the Top
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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:33 am

My, what delicate little flowers Shrewsbury fans are? Upset that someone somewhere else that they've sought out has made a comment that they don't agree with? Aw, bless... :shrug:

Slowing stuff down always makes it look worse, and blackbat's right, the collision is unavoidable. However, if you see you're about to bump into someone you can brace yourself or take a cheap shot, and the forward appears to do the latter. But frankly, who cares? We did what we needed to on Saturday, we have a 4 point cushion with 6 games to go, and those games can't come quickly enough at the moment. Is it 1 defeat in 29 games?

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:47 am

Ethiaa wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:05 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:14 pm
If you're talking deliberate elbow to the throat, well at that point his back his fully turned so there's no possible way he could make that contact deliberately.
You mean like someone shooting a handgun through a bathroom door couldn't have possibly have shot the person they knew to be in the bathroom deliberately? :D
No not really. Pistorius deliberately shot at someone though the door. That he alleges it was someone different from who he shot doesn't mean he didn't deliberately shoot at them.

In this case, a direct analogy to Pistorius would be to assume Rhead intended to clatter a defender, but because he turned his back, clattered the goalkeeper.

I think he knew he was going to collide with the keeper and turned his back. No possible way he knew he was going to elbow the keeper in the throat. Now having seen a few more incidents with this chap he might well have stuck his arm out in the hope he'd get someone, but it wouldn't be clear to me to be able to derive intention.
Last edited by mrblackbat on Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:57 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:47 am

In this case, a direct analogy to Pistorius would be to assume Rhead intended to clatter a defender, but because he turned his back, clattered the goalkeeper.

Surely, it would be he intended to clatter the goalkeeper, but didn't realise it was actually his girlfriend who he'd invited to play even though it was more likely than a total stranger breaking into his private football pitch to play in goal?

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:46 am

:D

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:20 am

Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:57 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:47 am

In this case, a direct analogy to Pistorius would be to assume Rhead intended to clatter a defender, but because he turned his back, clattered the goalkeeper.

Surely, it would be he intended to clatter the goalkeeper, but didn't realise it was actually his girlfriend who he'd invited to play even though it was more likely than a total stranger breaking into his private football pitch to play in goal?
So not murder then. It was still dangerous and therefore a red card of course. But the prison sentence does seem a bit excessive.

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:34 am

Ethiaa wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:20 am
Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:57 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:47 am

In this case, a direct analogy to Pistorius would be to assume Rhead intended to clatter a defender, but because he turned his back, clattered the goalkeeper.

Surely, it would be he intended to clatter the goalkeeper, but didn't realise it was actually his girlfriend who he'd invited to play even though it was more likely than a total stranger breaking into his private football pitch to play in goal?
So not murder then. It was still dangerous and therefore a red card of course. But the prison sentence does seem a bit excessive.
Eh? :shrug: Is Henderson dead?

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:46 am

Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:34 am
Eh? :shrug: Is Henderson dead?
Is that the neighbour that heard the screaming?

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:04 am

Ethiaa wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:46 am
Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:34 am
Eh? :shrug: Is Henderson dead?
Is that the neighbour that heard the screaming?
Er, no, the Shrewsbury goalkeeper? Bumping into a goalie whether on purpose or not can't be murder if the 'keeper wasn't killed... which is where the comparison to Pistorius will always diverge - he did shoot and kill someone, his (largely implausible) explanation that he thought it was a burglar using his loo doesn't affect that the action was intentional.

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:22 am

But it was dangerous - and as we all know, a dangerous act is a red card regardless of whether it was intended or not. So I'm not sure how Oscar stayed on the pitch. But that's what you get playing in China.

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by Gibbon » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:26 am

Surely it's a proportional analogy?

Did Oscar intend to murder his girlfriend? > Did Rhead intend to clatter Henderson?
Did Oscar succeed in murdering his girlfriend? > Did Rhead succeed in clattering Henderson?

Wait? Rhead thought Henderson was a burglar using his loo? That's alright then.

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:32 am

I'm not clear how Oscar got involved to be honest. Wasn't he on International duty with Brazil?

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:36 am

Ethiaa wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:20 am
Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:57 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:47 am

In this case, a direct analogy to Pistorius would be to assume Rhead intended to clatter a defender, but because he turned his back, clattered the goalkeeper.

Surely, it would be he intended to clatter the goalkeeper, but didn't realise it was actually his girlfriend who he'd invited to play even though it was more likely than a total stranger breaking into his private football pitch to play in goal?
So not murder then. It was still dangerous and therefore a red card of course. But the prison sentence does seem a bit excessive.
No murder. Not first degree murder, but murder all the same. He fully intended to kill the person behind the door.

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:37 am

Ethiaa wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:22 am
But it was dangerous - and as we all know, a dangerous act is a red card regardless of whether it was intended or not. So I'm not sure how Oscar stayed on the pitch. But that's what you get playing in China.
Stepping on a football field is dangerous then. We should send all players off as soon as they do it.

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:52 am

Is it though? Really?

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Re: Blackburn v Southend, Sat 7 Apr 2018, KO 15:00

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:46 pm

Well if you're saying that's dangerous play, yes. Because afterall, one of the things with dangerous play is that it's dangerous regardless of whether you connect with anyone, right? There must be plenty of times in every game where someone turns their back into a collision or near collision, so they're all getting reds, right?

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