Rovers/Birmingham City

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mrblackbat
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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:05 pm

You said you wanted him out. Now back track all you like.... :dunce:

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by MouseTrap » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:33 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:05 pm
You said you wanted him out. Now back track all you like.... :dunce:
Sorry, you clearly struggle to comprehend opinions and views that you disagree with, let me help you.
Mowbray hasn't shown any signs that he's willing to change his management style. He wants central players to play wide for example.
For this reason I want him gone. Should he do the unexpected, I'd be happy for him to stay.
Big Sam would be an improvement, I think results would improve if he was manager of these current players. There are loads of managers I wouldn't mind seeing take over.

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by mcteeth » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:22 pm

As I stated previously everyone in entitled to an opinion and people are also entitled to debate opinions. But a problem will always arise where an opinion comes across as slightly extreme given the circumstances as well contradictory to obvious facts.

You seem hell bent on leveling criticisms at Mowbray for some unknown reason as the reasons you state are nonsensical. It is patently obvious to any fan that he has been probably the best thing for this club in about a decade, this is something that is also regularly endorsed by a number of players when interviewed.

You also talk about Mowbray being unwilling to change his management style when you then read interviews such as this as well as just watching the team as a supporter and seeing how we're evolving and adapting to life back in the Championship.

Your opinions would be listened to and taken a lot more seriously if they had any coherent grounding.

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by MouseTrap » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:57 pm

mcteeth wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:22 pm
As I stated previously everyone in entitled to an opinion and people are also entitled to debate opinions. But a problem will always arise where an opinion comes across as slightly extreme given the circumstances as well contradictory to obvious facts.

You seem hell bent on leveling criticisms at Mowbray for some unknown reason as the reasons you state are nonsensical. It is patently obvious to any fan that he has been probably the best thing for this club in about a decade, this is something that is also regularly endorsed by a number of players when interviewed.

You also talk about Mowbray being unwilling to change his management style when you then read interviews such as this as well as just watching the team as a supporter and seeing how we're evolving and adapting to life back in the Championship.

Your opinions would be listened to and taken a lot more seriously if they had any coherent grounding.
Coherent grounding? He plays 2 holding midfielders with very little creativity, you wouldn't guess this looking at our goals conceded and inability to win games from winning positions. What have I said that's contradictory? You seem hell bent on rubbishing my opinion, if Mowbray changes his approach I'd be more than happy for him to stay, exactly why you have an issue with me stating the obvious I don't know. Yes he's been very good for us given our recent past, this doesn't mean we should just accept his questionable tactics just because he's been the best from a list of awful managers. Klopp said he wanted his team to take risks against United and it paid of very well, I'd love Mowbray to adopt this attitude. He very rarely plays wide players wide instead opting to play one of our many centre midfielders out wide, we have midfielders playing in defence and with Dack even sometimes upfront. It makes no sense to me. Brereton should have started upfront in every game Dack played there. He would have gained invaluable experience and started to build understandings with his team mates. How many points did we get when Dack played upfront? I firmly believe had we played wide players wide, Brereton infront of Dack we would have achieved more points than we did, but also had we lost every game the players would have started the process of gelling together as a team. It was wasted time in my opinion. I don't see Moybray changing any time soon and for this reason I'd rather gamble and roll the dice with a different manager.
Many of you try and belittle others opinions, you will predictably deny this of course but its here in plain text for all to see. I've received 2 private messages from 2 members of this site advising me that I should ignore some of your replies and in particular take no notice of BlackBat. You're all mostly in denial about the impression and attitude you have towards less regular posters. RoverTheMoon eventually moved on having had enough of the clique that has developed here, I think it's safe to assume he's not alone.
I want Rovers to be more adventurous in their approach to games and for this to happen I think we need to change manager. Now would be a good time to do it I think, I believe we're not going to be fighting relegation so I'd give a more attack minded manager 2/3s or so of the season to see what a change in approach could achieve.
Try and rubbish and belittle my views and opinions all you want. The majority of posters can see exactly what you are attempting to do. It's quite sad really I think.

Could any of you tell me what it would take for you to also want a change of direction regarding our manager?
Would drawing 20 games this season scoring roughly a goal a game and finishing 10th or lower be a good season? Would a repeat of this next season also be ok? What would it take for you to want Mowbray to move on?
Last edited by MouseTrap on Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:02 pm

MouseTrap wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:57 pm

Could any of you tell me what it would take for you to also want a change of direction regarding our manager?
Would drawing 20 games this season scoring roughly a goal a game and finishing 10th or lower be a good season? Would a repeat of this next season also be ok? What would it take for you to want Mowbray to move on?
Him getting caught in a newspaper bust telling agents he knows how to circumvent transfer regualtions for a nice backhander...

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by mrblackbat » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:24 pm

MouseTrap wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:33 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:05 pm
You said you wanted him out. Now back track all you like.... :dunce:
Sorry, you clearly struggle to comprehend opinions and views that you disagree with, let me help you.
Mowbray hasn't shown any signs that he's willing to change his management style. He wants central players to play wide for example.
For this reason I want him gone. Should he do the unexpected, I'd be happy for him to stay.
Big Sam would be an improvement, I think results would improve if he was manager of these current players. There are loads of managers I wouldn't mind seeing take over.
So you do want him fired and replaced with BFS?

Let's just leave this here...
MouseTrap wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:18 pm
Some of you seem confused, I have not said sack Mowbray to bring big Sam back, I've said Mowbray needs to change his tactics or go and I would have Sam back, saying I'd have him back isn't the same as saying I want him back, he just wouldn't be a bad option. I bet he'd sort our defence out and he'd play to our best players strengths. This could be Kean all over again, you can all defend Mowbray, I won't anymore.
Make your mind up, fella! :D

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by mcteeth » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:38 pm

MouseTrap firstly do not tarnish me with being part of any clique on here, I'm certainly not!

And when I talk about a coherent argument again you've bemoaned Mowbray playing two holding midfielders and lacking creativity, but then advocate Big Sam as a replacement. I'm not sure how creative you find attritional long ball percentage football, 10 men behind the ball, long throws et al. Mowbray has himself stated how he is focusing on developing the technical ability of the side admitting that we're still a work in progress, that is just a good honest appraisal of where we are as a team given where we've come from.

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that playing combinations of Dack, Reed, Evans, Bennett, Armstrong, Palmer, Rothwell isn't developing a creative style of play. Yes we can often have a dependence on Dack feeding off Graham but that's a system that's work well for us and our manager is actively trying to evolve our style of play.

You also reference playing midfielders in defence, presumably referring to Bennett and Reed filling in at right back, you do realise that was due to Nyambe being injured and not a tactical choice?

Serious question, you do realise that we were promoted from League 1 last season? And have more than held our own against the biggest spenders in this division. I'm not really sure what you were expecting.

For some reason you reference Klopp, but this is also Klopp who deliberately held back game time for both Robertson and Fabinho until they were ready to start games and be fully up to speed to his gegen press tactics. Now look how both those players are performing for him, Robertson is arguably one of their best players and yet was held back for months. Give Brereton some time, he's 19 and Mowbray has openly spoken about getting him up to speed with the demands of how we wants us to play. Yes on a couple of occasions he should have started game, Rotherham at home in particular, but this isn't major issue.

If we finish 10th this season that would represent a very successful campaign considering we were one of the promoted sides, it would also be our second best finish in the Championship since relegation from the Premier League, we finished 9th under Bowyer in 2014/15 and that was with one paper one of the best squads (and certainly best attacks) in the division.

What would it take for me to want Mowbray sacked, a lot quite frankly, if we were cut adrift in the relegation zone, squad clearly not playing for him and fracture within the club and the fans reappearing. But given we're a long way away from all that now then no I couldn't think of a single reason to get rid of him currently.

For what it's worth no I don't think Dack should start up front and Mowbray has made mistakes, but every manager does. But we played like that at Hull away and played them off the park. Tried it again at Derby away and had to make first half changes as we couldn't cope but still got an impressive point. He did it away at WBA and prior to Raya's injury it's one of our best performances of the season against one of the best sides. We're evolving as a team abd going in the right direction.

What was your expectation for this season given we were promoted from League 1 and have a very limited budget?

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by MouseTrap » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:35 pm

Delete this please admin, it should have had a quote included

I'm not replying to you pathetic 'fellow' rovers.
I don't see the team progressing much boyond where we are under Mowbray, he has shown very little sign of being able to adapt.
My original post was before anyone mentioned Big Sam, my response was I'd have him back. Hard to grasp I know. Lenihan and Rodwell are Midfielders played in defence also, your suggestion attempting to rubbish my opinion is wrong, your 2 is at least 4.
Can't be bothered to respond to anything else you've said, your comments are designed to rubbish what I've said show yourself to have the only opinions worth considering. I think yourself and Blackbag are quite pathetic. I won't be happy to wait until we are "cut adrift" before making a change, you are so happy days.
I'd rather not discuss Rovers with yourself or BlackBat but it's a free world and I'm sure you will have to respond to this, putting right my wrongs etc.
Have a good day.
Last edited by MouseTrap on Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by MouseTrap » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:36 pm

mcteeth wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:38 pm
MouseTrap firstly do not tarnish me with being part of any clique on here, I'm certainly not!

And when I talk about a coherent argument again you've bemoaned Mowbray playing two holding midfielders and lacking creativity, but then advocate Big Sam as a replacement. I'm not sure how creative you find attritional long ball percentage football, 10 men behind the ball, long throws et al. Mowbray has himself stated how he is focusing on developing the technical ability of the side admitting that we're still a work in progress, that is just a good honest appraisal of where we are as a team given where we've come from.

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that playing combinations of Dack, Reed, Evans, Bennett, Armstrong, Palmer, Rothwell isn't developing a creative style of play. Yes we can often have a dependence on Dack feeding off Graham but that's a system that's work well for us and our manager is actively trying to evolve our style of play.

You also reference playing midfielders in defence, presumably referring to Bennett and Reed filling in at right back, you do realise that was due to Nyambe being injured and not a tactical choice?

Serious question, you do realise that we were promoted from League 1 last season? And have more than held our own against the biggest spenders in this division. I'm not really sure what you were expecting.

For some reason you reference Klopp, but this is also Klopp who deliberately held back game time for both Robertson and Fabinho until they were ready to start games and be fully up to speed to his gegen press tactics. Now look how both those players are performing for him, Robertson is arguably one of their best players and yet was held back for months. Give Brereton some time, he's 19 and Mowbray has openly spoken about getting him up to speed with the demands of how we wants us to play. Yes on a couple of occasions he should have started game, Rotherham at home in particular, but this isn't major issue.

If we finish 10th this season that would represent a very successful campaign considering we were one of the promoted sides, it would also be our second best finish in the Championship since relegation from the Premier League, we finished 9th under Bowyer in 2014/15 and that was with one paper one of the best squads (and certainly best attacks) in the division.

What would it take for me to want Mowbray sacked, a lot quite frankly, if we were cut adrift in the relegation zone, squad clearly not playing for him and fracture within the club and the fans reappearing. But given we're a long way away from all that now then no I couldn't think of a single reason to get rid of him currently.

For what it's worth no I don't think Dack should start up front and Mowbray has made mistakes, but every manager does. But we played like that at Hull away and played them off the park. Tried it again at Derby away and had to make first half changes as we couldn't cope but still got an impressive point. He did it away at WBA and prior to Raya's injury it's one of our best performances of the season against one of the best sides. We're evolving as a team abd going in the right direction.

What was your expectation for this season given we were promoted from League 1 and have a very limited budget?
I don't see the team progressing much boyond where we are under Mowbray, he has shown very little sign of being able to adapt.
My original post was before anyone mentioned Big Sam, my response was I'd have him back. Hard to grasp I know. Lenihan and Rodwell are Midfielders played in defence also, your suggestion attempting to rubbish my opinion is wrong, your 2 is at least 4.My expectations were we'd play to our strengths, Make some half decent signings then play those players in their natural positions. We are dropping unessessary points, I'm not happy about it, you're happy to accept it as its some sort of teething problem, good for you. I mentioned Klopp as an example of a manager saying "let's really go for it this game, gamble and take some risks", bring up anything and everything else Klopp related of you want. Seems I deflecting tactic, another attempt to rubbish and dismiss my opinion. I can like 1 thing Klopp has done without endorsing everything else, I couldn't care less when he did or didn't play any of his players, but out of interest, did he 'bed them in' by playing them out of position or playing them where any observer would expect them to play?
Can't be bothered to respond to anything else you've said, your comments are designed to rubbish what I've said show yourself to have the only opinions worth considering. I think yourself and Blackbag are quite pathetic. I won't be happy to wait until we are "cut adrift" before making a change, you are so happy days.
I'd rather not discuss Rovers with yourself or BlackBat but it's a free world and I'm sure you will have to respond to this, putting right my wrongs etc.
Have a good day.

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by Thorisgodpoo » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:20 pm

This is the last time I will jump in on this.

Mowbray has shown he has been able to adapt to game changing circumstances. Even though we got blown out at Swansea and Bristol City, he put on an attacking squad with substitutes and went for it.

As far as starting formation goes, you will see that he doesn't have much variability in what formation he starts. When you have 4 first team strikers, 2 of them being used as wide men, you don't have the option to play a 2 up top formation. And we aren't necessarily tested for 3 at the back either. So he is playing to his strengths while noticing what options he has.

I think he is one of the most adaptable coaches we had in a while. Before that might have been Bowyer and before that was Hughes.

I think he is doing well with a list of average and two good players. Sure, there are weaknesses in the lineup, but that is what January will be for. Remember, this is the first season back up with a squad of players that he can claim is "his." Give it some time.

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:10 pm

Ah i love it when someone can't face up to their own demonstrable contradictions. :D

Boo fucking hoo, I posted on the internet, contradicted myself, and then ran off crying.
Last edited by mrblackbat on Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by mcteeth » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:35 am

MouseTrap wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:36 pm
Have a good day.
Thanks.

I guess it just makes things even more awkward to point out that Nottingham Forest predominantly played Breretion as a wide left attacker and he came on as a sub in nearly half his appearances for them :shrug:

You can come on here and complain that you've been undermined and your opinion belittled but you've demonstrated a staggering lack of perspective with regards to the last 10 years of this club. We had 7/8 seasons of abject misery, finally hit rock bottom and across the last couple of seasons Mowbray has completely revitalised the club and gone a very long way to repairing the fractures across the fanbase and animosity towards Venky's has receded. And yet your quite happy to rip that all up because we've drawn a couple of games we should have won and bring back Big Sam.
Last edited by mcteeth on Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by Gibbon » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:58 pm

mcteeth wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:35 am
MouseTrap wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:36 pm
Have a good day.
Thanks.
:lol:

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Re: Rovers/Birmingham City

Post by Ethiaa » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:27 pm

You chaps have been having fun then.

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