Sack race

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mcteeth
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Re: Sack race

Post by mcteeth » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:08 pm

Not really, just depends if you want to spin it that way to suit your argument.

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Re: Sack race

Post by Rover the Top » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:20 pm

Not spinning anything. You're saying Rhodes wanted to go in previous transfer windows - so why didn't he? What changed between the previous transfer windows and the one when he left? Only one key factor - the manager. And before the deal was even completed, Lambert did an interview saying we didn't need Rhodes and we should have sold him earlier. Of course it was down to him that the transfer went ahead, what's there to dispute?

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Re: Sack race

Post by mcteeth » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:50 pm

Well you're already treating each transfer window, the previous January and the summer, as independent without accounting for the cumulative effect of repeated windows where a player is actively trying to leave. It was also the first window after we'd already sold our other 2 main star players which would have had an additional impact, as would the general form and direction of the team, we were very obviously in a level of decline rather than on the up.

Rhodes had lost his main strike partner and our best creator and wasn't scoring at the same rate as before under both managers. We've no idea the full extent of the internal workings of it all, but it will always be laughable that you attribute 100% personal blame to Lambert and even more so as you somehow think Rhodes was going to stay and carry on banging goals in.

As always this is a very pointless discussion and we haven't even touched the other very obvious fact that we his wages were also not sustainable.

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Re: Sack race

Post by daib0 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:21 pm

Reading's Paul Clement about to fall?!

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Re: Sack race

Post by daib0 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:22 pm

not to mention Lopetegui in Real Madrid...

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Ethiaa
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Re: Sack race

Post by Ethiaa » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:06 pm

Swap deal.

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Re: Sack race

Post by daib0 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Ethiaa wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:06 pm
Swap deal.
:yeahright: :D

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Re: Sack race

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:59 am

mcteeth wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:50 pm
Well you're already treating each transfer window, the previous January and the summer, as independent without accounting for the cumulative effect of repeated windows where a player is actively trying to leave. It was also the first window after we'd already sold our other 2 main star players which would have had an additional impact, as would the general form and direction of the team, we were very obviously in a level of decline rather than on the up.

Rhodes had lost his main strike partner and our best creator and wasn't scoring at the same rate as before under both managers. We've no idea the full extent of the internal workings of it all, but it will always be laughable that you attribute 100% personal blame to Lambert and even more so as you somehow think Rhodes was going to stay and carry on banging goals in.

As always this is a very pointless discussion and we haven't even touched the other very obvious fact that we his wages were also not sustainable.

It's only pointless because as usual you refuse to acknowledge anything that would cause you to reassess your opinion.
It's a fact that with Rhodes' transfer on the verge of collapsing, Lambert said we should have sold him earlier and that we didn't need his goals. After the deal was resurrected, he was adamant that we'd be better without him (which of course didn't turn out to be the case). There's some merit in saying if a player repeatedly wants out then you have to give in at some point. However, we were not supposed to be in decline, bringing Lambert in was supposed to be us turning the corner and looking up - it should have been an easier sell than Bowyer had to say it was worth sticking around now we were out of the embargo. But the bottom line is, it came from the horse's mouth that Lambert would rather cash in and go on a spending spree. And that makes speculating about how much other factors played a part redundant.

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Re: Sack race

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:59 am

Ethiaa wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:06 pm
Swap deal.
You're thinking of sending them Alan Irvine? :o

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Re: Sack race

Post by mcteeth » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:48 am

Touche Toppers, I'm well aware of everything Lambert said during that transfer window I just didn't treat it like the world had ended. You take a very narrow view of the situation as a whole, Lambert said x,y,z and that is the sole reason for the sale and he is solely to blame for us being relegated according to you. You would be the first to criticise other people on the forum for dealing in absolutes or not taking account of other factors or a wider context.

I look at the Rhodes transfer in the context of where we were as a club, where he wanted to be as a player and our financial circumstances. You look at it just on the basis of Lambert and what he said. Pretending that eventually we wouldn't end up losing Rhodes at some point is somewhat naive, particularly accounting for the January 2015 transfer window with the first intense speculation about him and our subsequent failure to mount a play-off push and players lost that summer. To then attribute blame to someone you don't like anyway doesn't make your opinion more valid.

We're never going to agree on any of this so there is little point in discussing it any further.

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Re: Sack race

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:58 am

mcteeth wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:48 am
You would be the first to criticise other people on the forum for dealing in absolutes or not taking account of other factors or a wider context.
He MIGHT do that - it would depend on other factors and the wider context.

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Re: Sack race

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:39 am

mcteeth wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:48 am
To then attribute blame to someone you don't like anyway doesn't make your opinion more valid.
Eh? Unlike some, I don't decide whether I like someone or not on day 1 and obstinately stick to that opinion regardless of all evidence to the contrary. My dislike of Lambert has been formed based on his actions here. ie the way he blamed his failure to deliver on things he knew about and said didn't matter when he joined. The way in which he walked out and left the mess to someone else. The way in which he went public about wanting to sell a key player hours before the deal collapsed.

Some hailed him as a great manager before he even took charge of a game. I was indifferent. And whilst his record here was much of a muchness, the way he conducted himself was poor. And he's behvaed the same way elsewhere. Hence why I don't rate him. Contrast with Mowbray's professionalism.

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Re: Sack race

Post by mcteeth » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:13 pm

Ethiaa wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:58 am
mcteeth wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:48 am
You would be the first to criticise other people on the forum for dealing in absolutes or not taking account of other factors or a wider context.
He MIGHT do that - it would depend on other factors and the wider context.
:lol:

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Re: Sack race

Post by Darth Rover » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:29 pm

The money is good but i am glad i am not a football manager. I can see why Paul Hurst brought in Nsiala, Nolan and Edwards from League one football. He also brought in Ellis Harrison also from league one who Tony Mowbray was said to have wanted. Well he gave these players a chance and it was Hurst who paid the price. They didnt look too bad on the opening day but now look to have paid the price for getting rid of Mick McCarthy. The tractor boys future now looks similar to Rovers recent past. Paul Lambert is not the answer to the problems now at Portman Road. Apart from Norwich he has left a trail of failure. At some point you have to stick around and get on with it which he has proven since leaving Rovers is not on his agenda.

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