Croatia Vs England

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Rover the Top
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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:57 pm

Gibbon wrote:
Phil wrote:Rooney :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:

Excellent performance last night, but still areas to improve. Central midfield being one of them. Gerrard and Hargreaves over Lampard and Barry. Kazakhstan at home should give us the opportunity to test somethings out, either from the start or bench when the game should be wrapped up.

On that performance sure. I'd try Hargreaves or Carrick for Barry, who doesn't seem to have been playing as well as he can in recent weeks for club or country.

However, if Barry can recover his form, I'd stick with him.
Does The Canadian still play football? I thought he must have switched to being a physio or something, the amount of time he spends in the treatment room...

I think Barry's a better all round player than Carrick, but can see the argument for switching them on current form.

And I'd like to see how Ashton would fit in my ideal formation, although Owen would still be my first choice - say what you want about him, he still scores goals at all levels.

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Joe
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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by Joe » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:59 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Joe wrote:
I'm pretty sure I've outlined the difference between Barry's performance tonight, and his other 'good' performances....in that todays opposition were slightly decent.

Erickson, a proven very good club manager. But for England? I don't think so. He took us to respectable levels? I'd say he blew it once he got to those levels with his tactical suicide attempts. Would you be happy with him still in charge? His selections were almost as much as a joke as his tactics, he had no balls, and did exactly what the brainless fans and media called for.

Focusing on the idea that we were "substantially helped by good fortune" is the exact England fan mindset that pisses me off. Cheer the fuck up. We could have played the perfect game tonight, and won 78-0, and you'd still be mentioning the fact we played against 10 men for part of the game. Again, put yourself back into Rover's fan mode, I'm sure you wouldn't look at the result as a lucky one. You'd be praising the fuck out of it.
I am cheery, you clearly still haven't read my first post on the matter. All I'm doing is pointing out that your rose tinted view is just as unobjective and farcical as the pessimists.

As for Sven, I think his record proves that he was a good manager for England. If Capello can match it, he'll have done well. You talk about his joke selections, and yet want Capello to pick the same players.... :numpty;
So I suppose you would like Sven to be still in charge? Your were disappointed when he was sacked?

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mrblackbat
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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:03 pm

I wanted him sacked cause he played crap football. He has as just as many credentials as Capello. And I notice you skirt round the other portions which make you look silly, nicely done.

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Gibbon
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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by Gibbon » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:04 pm

Wait....who's actually criticised Capello on here? From what I can tell, the majority of people have only moaned about the players failing to show the required desire and commitment. How have you managed to interpret that as a criticism of Capello? :-?

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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:10 pm

Gibbon wrote:Wait....who's actually criticised Capello on here? From what I can tell, the majority of people have only moaned about the players failing to show the required desire and commitment. How have you managed to interpret that as a criticism of Capello? :-?
Cause he's a numbnuts.

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Joe
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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by Joe » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:21 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Gibbon wrote:Wait....who's actually criticised Capello on here? From what I can tell, the majority of people have only moaned about the players failing to show the required desire and commitment. How have you managed to interpret that as a criticism of Capello? :-?
Cause he's a numbnuts.
Can neither of you read? Where has anybody interpreted anything as criticism of Capello?

I asked blackbat whether he would still like Sven in charge. because by the sounds of it he rated him as England manager. Who mentioned Capello?

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Dan
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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by Dan » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:33 pm

Image

Image

Image



:bored:

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mrblackbat
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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:37 pm

Joe wrote:
mrblackbat wrote:
Gibbon wrote:Wait....who's actually criticised Capello on here? From what I can tell, the majority of people have only moaned about the players failing to show the required desire and commitment. How have you managed to interpret that as a criticism of Capello? :-?
Cause he's a numbnuts.
Can neither of you read? Where has anybody interpreted anything as criticism of Capello?

I asked blackbat whether he would still like Sven in charge. because by the sounds of it he rated him as England manager. Who mentioned Capello?
You've been constantly insinuating that I've been criticising Capello. You ask if we can't read, maybe you should consider the same, and read my first post again, which you blatantly still haven't.

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Dr Rover
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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by Dr Rover » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:40 pm

I still think it stinks that at international level we need to play a holding midfield player - especially when we play 4-4-2.

If the country cant produce two midfielders who can have some level of awareness and responsibility its a damn shame.

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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:42 pm

Why is international level any different to PL level? PL should surely be higher because you're not limited on nationality and can build a team around ALL the best players in the world.

Having a dedicated deeper player means that the attacking player is more likely to be in a useful position to pose a threat during an attack. Having two box to box means that they're spending too much time wasting energy covering the whole park. Which is why that mould of central midfield pairings is almost completely dead at the high levels of football now.

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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by Dr Rover » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:47 pm

mrblackbat wrote:Why is international level any different to PL level? PL should surely be higher because you're not limited on nationality and can build a team around ALL the best players in the world.
That is assuming you are able to buy ALL the best players in the world :scratch:

And who said I think PL teams shouldnt have a holding midfielder. I certainly didnt. :numpty; I didnt mention the PL at all

But, very generally, PL teams that have a holding midfielder play a 4-3-3 formation, and so I can sort of understand that. But England have shown time an time and time and time again that the 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 formation they play doesnt really work. When we play 4-4-2, there is no need to have a holding midlfield player - waste of a shirt in my opinion.

I feel playing 4-4-2 with a holding midfielder is only really necessary when you have a really shit midfield that cant discipline themselves correctly

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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by nathanolder » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:51 pm

International level has gotta be higher, as no English player is out of reach for the manager. Where as we all know chelsea and United cant sign Gerrard.

True the PL has potential to have a better team BUT... at International level, you dont have Europes best club trying to nick your best players

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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:55 pm

nathanolder wrote:International level has gotta be higher, as no English player is out of reach for the manager. Where as we all know chelsea and United cant sign Gerrard.

True the PL has potential to have a better team BUT... at International level, you dont have Europes best club trying to nick your best players
You're assuming that English players are better than every other player in the world. Which they clearly aren't.

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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:56 pm

Dr Rover wrote:
mrblackbat wrote:Why is international level any different to PL level? PL should surely be higher because you're not limited on nationality and can build a team around ALL the best players in the world.
That is assuming you are able to buy ALL the best players in the world :scratch:

And who said I think PL teams shouldnt have a holding midfielder. I certainly didnt. :numpty; I didnt mention the PL at all

But, very generally, PL teams that have a holding midfielder play a 4-3-3 formation, and so I can sort of understand that. But England have shown time an time and time and time again that the 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 formation they play doesnt really work. When we play 4-4-2, there is no need to have a holding midlfield player - waste of a shirt in my opinion.

I feel playing 4-4-2 with a holding midfielder is only really necessary when you have a really shit midfield that cant discipline themselves correctly
I think playing a 4-4-2 with a holding midfielder allows a truly brilliant midfielder the time and space to do what he's considered truly brilliant for.

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Re: Croatia Vs England

Post by Dr Rover » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:03 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Dr Rover wrote:
mrblackbat wrote:Why is international level any different to PL level? PL should surely be higher because you're not limited on nationality and can build a team around ALL the best players in the world.
That is assuming you are able to buy ALL the best players in the world :scratch:

And who said I think PL teams shouldnt have a holding midfielder. I certainly didnt. :numpty; I didnt mention the PL at all

But, very generally, PL teams that have a holding midfielder play a 4-3-3 formation, and so I can sort of understand that. But England have shown time an time and time and time again that the 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 formation they play doesnt really work. When we play 4-4-2, there is no need to have a holding midlfield player - waste of a shirt in my opinion.

I feel playing 4-4-2 with a holding midfielder is only really necessary when you have a really shit midfield that cant discipline themselves correctly
I think playing a 4-4-2 with a holding midfielder allows a truly brilliant midfielder the time and space to do what he's considered truly brilliant for.
I think a truely brilliant midfielder should be able to attack and defend - otherwise what you are really talking about is a truely brilliant attacker.

In all seriousnesss, i can totally see your point about having a holding player. Freeing up a central midfielder to just concentrate on attacking does have its advantages. But I also think it has some serious disadvantages too. For instance, football isnt as simple as saying one midfielder can defend while the other attacks. Most of the time in football, both central midfielders will need to defend togehter, attack together, and then also attack and defend seporately. Having one that does one job and one that does the other seriously cuts down on the amount of attacking and defending that can be done in central midfield.

I've always been brought up on attack and defend as a team. And with the players at Englands disposal, I cant see why we cant find two midfielders that are excellent at attacking and defending, and can commincate to a level where they dont get in each others way. Perhaps I am jsut asking too much. But really, i dont think so...

But I respect your opinion. I can understand where you are coming from. But, unfortunately, we'll just have to agree to disagree

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