Poppycock.

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Rover the Top
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Poppycock.

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:23 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15643295.stm

This FIFA ban on poppies is an emotive issue. How dare they obstruct the English from remembering our fallen soldiers in our traditional way? Our FA, newspapers and politicians all have had their say on this latest attempt by FIFA to victimise us...

...yet nobody seems to be saying it how it really is. FIFA haven't banned poppies, at least not in a direct way. If they allowed England to wear them, it would be a case of favouritism - no other nation is allowed to add something similar to their kits either... and it should be easy to see beyond the patriotic hoo-hah and recognise that there's a good reason for FIFA wanting to remain neutral from politics and religion. North and South Korea can both take part in the same World Cup as a result, for example. So as much as England fans may not like it, FIFA are right not to make an exception for them.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Rover Ryan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:37 am

I couldn't agree more. It is imperitive that FIFA stay neutral with things like religion and war.

I have no idea why the FA hasn't made some black armbands with a picture of a poppy on them for the players to wear.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:50 am

Probably because they will still be in breach of the rule? They should get the players to have poppies tattooed on their foreheads... :yeahright:

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Rover Ryan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:54 am

:lol:

There must be some compromise that doesn't break the rules.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Rover Ryan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:20 am

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/NewsAndFeatu ... e-Day-2011

The FA would like to clarify that the organisation and England players at all levels will be showing their respect and marking Remembrance Day in a number of ways.

We have been working closely with the Royal British Legion who have welcomed our support. We can confirm that:

The England players will wear black armbands during the Spain game on Saturday
The FA will place a poppy wreath on the pitch during the national anthems
There will be a one-minute silence ahead of kick-off
Players will wear training tops with embroidered poppies on match day
Players will wear poppy-embossed anthem jackets during the national anthems
Military representatives will be in the presentation party prior to kick-off
The FA has donated 500 England v Spain tickets to 'Tickets for Troops', for members of the armed forces, and 1,000 tickets for the England v Sweden game on Tuesday (this is standard FA policy for Wembley matches)
The England senior squad will train at Wembley on Friday ahead of the Spain game. They will observe the two-minute silence at 11am, all wearing training tops embossed with poppies. This session will be broadcast live
The training tops embossed with poppies will be passed onto forces' charities post-match as auction items for fund raising
The poppy will be visible around Wembley on Saturday, on the scoreboards and advertising boards, and poppy sellers will be in the stadium to allow supporters to donate to the poppy fund and show their support
On Thursday, England Under-21s play Iceland in Colchester and England U19s play Denmark in Brighton. All players and staff will be wearing poppies pre- and post-match
Both the Under-21s and U19s will observe a one-minute silence, too, at their games - the Under-21s will do so alongside troops from Colchester barracks.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Ethiaa » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:22 am

If Fifa are happy to have a period of silence before the game, is that not also "jeopardising the neutrality of football"? I don't see the difference. If a poppy on the shirt is political then so is a silence before the game to recognise the same thing.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:34 am

Is the period before the game starts part of the game? I'd say that logically, no it isn't and therefore doesn't fall under FIFA's governance. The players can wear poppies or whatever they want before the match starts, as it's only what they wear during the game that's defined by the rules.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Ethiaa » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:42 am

Rover the Top wrote:Is the period before the game starts part of the game? I'd say that logically, no it isn't and therefore doesn't fall under FIFA's governance. The players can wear poppies or whatever they want before the match starts, as it's only what they wear during the game that's defined by the rules.
The articles I've read imply that Fifa had to "give permission" for that period of silence :shrug:
That would at least make sense.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:48 pm

How many of those articles also make reference to FIFA 'banning' poppies? ;) Maybe they have to ask permission because there's another national FA involved in the match? Maybe it's just courtesy? The FA statement doesn't say they have received permission to do all the things they've listed. I still think there is a distinction because the laws don't cover etiquette before the game, but they do say what can and can't be worn during the game.

There's a contradiction anyway in having international competition anyway, the kits and team badges often are based on national colours or flags. I'm sure that could be construed as a political statement, if people wanted to make the point.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Joe » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:51 pm

England were told that they can't wear poppys. So they can't. They can pay their respects in other ways. As has been mentioned, they'll be allowed to observe a minutes silence. And nobody's stopping the players attend a memorial service the morning of the game.

And as for David Cameron showing his support for the appeal, whilst also reminding everyone how in touch he is with "football", well aren't Governments prohibited by FIFA from getting involved in footballing matters? We'll probably get in trouble for that now.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:12 pm

They're not prohibited from having their say. But Blatter just laughs at them. To their faces. :yeahright:

FIFA doesn't allow governments to influence national FAs. That's a bit different to a PM jumping on a bandwagon... ;)

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Joe » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:16 pm

Rover the Top wrote:They're not prohibited from having their say. But Blatter just laughs at them. To their faces. :yeahright:

FIFA doesn't allow governments to influence national FAs. That's a bit different to a PM jumping on a bandwagon... ;)
I'd say backing the FA with political weight is interfering. FIFA won't like it. Its pointless.

There're plenty of things wrong with FIFA that are a lot more worrying than a rule which means we can't wear Poppys.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:35 pm

Interfering is not the same as influencing. FIFA would object if the interference influenced the FA's stance. But you'd struggle to make a credible argument that Cameron trying to score a few brownie points was the reason why the FA sent two letters to FIFA before he got involved... :yeahright:

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Joe » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:43 pm

Well FIFA won't like, and it will have zero (positive effect). So its pointless.

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Re: Poppycock.

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:49 pm

Pointless as it won't make FIFA change their mind. But it's a great opportunity for a PM to appear to be in touch with public sentiment knowing that he won't have to actually do anything to back up what he says. From that point of view, it's pretty much essential for Cameron to say something...

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