Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

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Head Rover Heels
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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Head Rover Heels » Thu May 29, 2008 5:34 pm

It's the scary face - it gets intimidating half way through a reply and then i bottle it ;)

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Dr Rover
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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Dr Rover » Thu May 29, 2008 6:07 pm

Head Rover Heels wrote: The only thing i would contest (ever so slightly) is Lampard, and only on the fact that i think it's slightly overboard - Waste of a shirt last night, waste of a shirt in that role, but worth having in the squad and working out a team that would work around him. If we sustained injuries to Gerrard and/or Rooney, a team built around Lampard would be a decent enough plan B, as he has it in his locker, but only if we play his way. That's why all this "fine tuning" bollocks annoys me - We should already have a plan A (Gerrard and Barry, Rooney with another striker), and should work out plan B (Lampard with Hargreaves behind him, give wingers license to attack)
I think international players should have more in the locker than being a one trick pony - hence the whole Hargreaves rant thing.

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Phil
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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Phil » Thu May 29, 2008 7:51 pm

Dr Rover wrote:To be brutally honest, I thought Hargreaves was the best player on the pitch last night. He did absolutely everything he was asked to do well.

But, whilst he did everything he was asked to do well, for me he still doesnt have enough in his locker to be a regular England international. Ball retention is something that is very important at international level, but it is also important for all of the midfielders to be able to pick the right ball at the right time. That's something I dont think Hargreaves has in his locker. He tends to delay hios passes, almost as if he hasnt seen the runner, and then, of course, it's too late.

I agree with you whole heartidly that Hargreaves is a better defensive midfielder than Barry, but Barry is an all round better midfielder - by miles in fact. He is probably somehting like 5% worse a DM than Hargreaves, but 95% better ion all other areas. FOr me, i'd start with Barry every time. But then again, I have made my views on defensive midfielders very clear in the past. I dont believe they are necessary, especially at international level. At that high standard of the game, midfield players should all be able to tracak runs and get theor tackles in, as well as keep the ball and keep it moving more importantly. I can sort of understand playing a DM if you are releasing other players into more attacking positions, but last night we really played a bog standard 4-4-2, and hence Hargreaves' role was essentially negated. ALso, to say Hargreaves has excelled on the wing for you is rediculous. It's like us saying Warhurst did an exceptional job on the left for us. He did a job there, but nothing more, and the same can be said of Hargreaves.

For me, Gerrard and Barry HAVE to be the prefered central midfield partnership. They have proven time and time again that they compliment each other well, and form a formidable pairing in the centre of the park. Between them they have everything you need for a successful midfield, and can both cover each other if the case is needed. Whilst playing Gerrard on the left worked to an extent last night, I actually think it worked more against us. Gerrard would've ripped the USA to shreds bursting form the middle last night, as he has proved time and time again. He is simply a victim of his own ability - just because he can affect the game from out wide as well as in the middle, doesnt mean he should do.

As for the whole Bentley - Beckham debate. To be honest, both of them were very quiet last night, which i think is probably due to the wank artists that were playing along side them in central midfield. Beckham really only contributed with two free kicks. Bentley had a few decent crosses - i remember him setting up Crouch with a couple towards the end of the game and he planted one right on Rooneys scony which he should've scored from, but tried the spectacular overhead kick instead. I actually thopught his corners and free kicks were ok too. But still - he certainly didnt set the game alight. He had a very steady 45 minutes i'd say. I think Ashley Young must be pushing hard for a place in the starting Xi soonish, so i think Bentley needs to start putting in the eprformances for his country we all know he can.

Finally, I was so disappoint to see Lampard in the starting XI again last night, and even more disappointed by his performance again. HE didnt contribute one thing to the game. How he can still be getting in the side is beyond me. HE has proved time and time again, when he is asked to play any other role that supporting the strikers from the middle, he falls flat on his face. Waste of a shirt!
Hargreaves has been a revelation for us on the wing when Ronaldo has been required up front. Considering you dont support United, I'm guessing you havent watched our full games. I'm not saying he should play there for England but has greatly impressed when playing there for us, as he has at RB and DM. I agree with Joe about Lampard/Barry. Sure, Frank was shite last night, but he hasnt had 3 weeks off like everyone else. If Capello can fit Gerrard and Barry in a team together then we should as individually Lampard is a far better player than Barry. Barry should definitely be in the squad and he is on top form, but he isn't anywhere near the same quality as players we should be playing against in the latter stages of a tournament. He would do well in qualifying, but defensively he isn't good enough. With Villa he has a DM behind him, and he will have Mascherano if he goes to Liverpool. Play him as the sole DM and we'll be overran.

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Gibbon » Thu May 29, 2008 9:51 pm

You keep saying it...and it's STILL not true. :D

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Phil
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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Phil » Thu May 29, 2008 10:02 pm

Gibbon wrote:You keep saying it...and it's STILL not true. :D
Where did you get your crystal ball? Can you tell me this weekend's euro millions? :roll:

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by rover_stalk? » Thu May 29, 2008 10:23 pm

i was actually surprised to see hargreaves attack so much recently for united and i think he does a decent job when goin forward although barry does have something about him. his ability to create killer passes is...well...killer! :)

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Dr Rover » Fri May 30, 2008 7:44 am

Phil wrote: Hargreaves has been a revelation for us on the wing when Ronaldo has been required up front. Considering you dont support United, I'm guessing you havent watched our full games. I'm not saying he should play there for England but has greatly impressed when playing there for us, as he has at RB and DM. I agree with Joe about Lampard/Barry. Sure, Frank was shite last night, but he hasnt had 3 weeks off like everyone else. If Capello can fit Gerrard and Barry in a team together then we should as individually Lampard is a far better player than Barry. Barry should definitely be in the squad and he is on top form, but he isn't anywhere near the same quality as players we should be playing against in the latter stages of a tournament. He would do well in qualifying, but defensively he isn't good enough. With Villa he has a DM behind him, and he will have Mascherano if he goes to Liverpool. Play him as the sole DM and we'll be overran.
How on earth can you say that individually Lampard is better than Barry. Are you basing that statement on the fact that Lampard plays for a bigger club than Barry, or just soley the fact that he scores more goals (which isnt the primary job of a midfielder by the way). Lampard is a one trick pony. He can play in a midfield where he has no responsibility for anything that goes on behind him, and all he has to do is bomb forward and get in the box. You cant afford to carry a player like that at international level - it is far too predictable. You need a varied attack, to keep the opposition guessing. Barry has proven time and time again that he has the ability. He can tackle, track, pass, retain the ball, keep it moving, defend, and get forward all to a high level.

I think you are getting far too hung up on this whole defensive midfield idea. In a straight 4-4-2 formation a defensive midfielder is a hindrance rather than a help. Gerrard and Barry both have the ability to sit, and track when they have to, but both offer a lot more going forward than the alternatives. Playing Lampard and Gerrard in the centre simply does not work - it has been tried time and time again, and proven not to work. I'd not give it any more time. Gerrard and Barry on the other hand does work.

It is because the England side has just become a stomping ground for the big name Charlies that I hardly ever bother with it anymore. It's not about the team anymore, but just seems to be a showcase for the big 4 to show off their home grown talent. The likes of Barry, Bentley, Ashley Young etc don't get a fair shout, not because they are not good enough, but because they don't represent the big 4, and so supposedly havent played the game at a high enough level. They havent played in a champions league final so obviously they arnt worthy, when that is just mindless bullshit that shows everything that is wrong with football today. The England side should be about the best TEAM that England can field, not eh best group of individuals.

If it were me in charge, I'd try a midfield of

Young Barry Gerrard Bentley

That is midfield that is solid in the middle, but with a real flair and drive for getting forward, has lightening pace out on the left with end product, as well as having guile and craft and the ability to pick the killer ball when needed. The fact that three of the four players dont play for the supposed top clubs mean we are unlikely to ever see it in a competitive game.

And this problem also means players are ruining their careers by thinking they have to sign for a top four club to play at the top of their game. Look at the good British talent that has been stifled in Chelsea's reserves over the past few years - Sidwell, Wright-Phillps, Parker to name but a few. Those players believed they had to make the move to a top 4 club to be a success in the game, when all they did was kill their career because they rotted in the reserves all season. Its the same with the Bentley situation now. He is being pressured into a move to a top 4 club, simply because it is perceived he cant be a top international footballers and not play for one of the top 4 clubs.

Anyway, it makes me angry to discuss it, especially with someone who cant get past his club bias and see the real cancer that is eating away at British football. I'm sorry if that offends you Phil, but it is simply the truth. Take a step back and look at the situation as a neutral, and I really mean a neutral, and I dont think you'll like what you see. Because you will see that the likes of Hargreaves are simply not good enough to represent England on a regular basis, and the really good English players are suffering because of it.

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Gibbon » Fri May 30, 2008 8:19 am

I think Phil, like many United fans feel that his clubs achievements and experience somehow add to his own... :numpty; Therefore....he knows FAR more than anyone here about what constitutes a good player. ;)

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by mrblackbat » Fri May 30, 2008 11:43 am

LOLPHIL.

Deluded beyond belief as always.

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Gibbon » Fri May 30, 2008 11:49 am

:D

Plus he doesn't seem to see the problem inherent in using an argument about other people not passing judgement on Hargreaves without having watched him regularly this season.....and yet does exactly the same thing himself to Barry. :numpty; :dunce: :foot: :D ;)

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by mrblackbat » Fri May 30, 2008 11:52 am

Gibbon wrote::D

Plus he doesn't seem to see the problem inherent in using an argument about other people not passing judgement on Hargreaves without having watched him regularly this season.....and yet does exactly the same thing himself to Barry. :numpty; :dunce: :foot: :D ;)
Let's face it, when it comes to football, he's just a complete wanker.

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by rover_stalk? » Fri May 30, 2008 3:54 pm

hope warnock starts on sunday. if he picks bridge then capello cant say he is basing selection on performance

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Simon » Fri May 30, 2008 8:50 pm

I'd still pick Joe Cole instead of Young on the left.

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Joe » Fri May 30, 2008 9:53 pm

Simon wrote:I'd still pick Joe Cole instead of Young on the left.
Definitely.

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Re: Next England Manager - Fabio Capello

Post by Willy » Fri May 30, 2008 10:30 pm

Capello: Stuart-a, whata shoulda I do to, aaah, ween over the English media anda showa that I-aaah can be different from other England managers?

Pearce: Well, Fab - Listen mate, wot I'd do, right, is I'd play Cole at left back coz, like, no-one'd predict that, mate.

Capello: But-aaah, what about if I-aah, put Warnock in at-a left back for a change? People will never predict such a mona-strosity-aaah...

Pearce: Nah, right, listen Fabby-Babby, if you play Cole then bring Bridge on, coz we ain't seen Bridge in an England kit yet and it's not like he's been crap in the past or he's hardly had any football. Warnock's a last resort, geeza...

Capello: But-aah, I seena Warnock kick-ah the ball well this season, Stewy. He make a good pass to his team-a-mate, I like him.

Pearce: Ee plays for bloody Blackburn, boss. Take this Bentley geeza, ee tried to be a smart-alec but I tought that kid a lesson.

Capello: But Stewy, I prefer-a the Bentley to the Beckham. He also make a nice pass. He should play-a.

Stuart: Alwight Fab, but just remember, it's your bloody neck on the line, not mine. Mundane is what we aim for, it's our way.


Regards,

The Fly On The Dressing Room Wall

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