Cycling

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Jim
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Re: Cycling

Post by Jim » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:35 pm

So guys, its the big one today on the Angliru. Froome is looking good for a maiden Vuelta title and to be the first cyclist in the "clean" era to win two grand tours. Nibali is a minute and a half behind and a better descender, however with the weather being a factor do we think its enough to overturn the lead?

Its going to be a huge battle and Froome has shown this last week he has legs, winning the individual TT by some way and finishing best of the rest on Stage 18 putting another bunch of seconds on Nibali, but also signs of being vulnerable (namely stage 17 in poor weather when Nibali took a lot of time out of him).

Predictions?

I frankly dislike Nibali, I find something about him distasteful, but I can see him taking a lot more time out of Froome today. Whether its enough remains to be seen. I still fancy Chris for the overall win tomorrow in Madrid though.

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Re: Cycling

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:42 pm


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Re: Cycling

Post by Jim » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:40 am

I’m reserving judgement until the hearing. He has asthma and has taken a legal substance for it. The issue seems to be around why he has so much in his urine sample and could be due to dehydration or how his body metabolised the normal dose he took. We will see as he’ll get his chance to demonstrate it.

It’s certainly not performance enhancing in any way. Giving an asthma sufferer the ability to breathe like a normal human being during an attack is not performance enhancing or doping. It’s necessary and was done with the full knowledge of team doctors and the authorities.

The Wiggins fiasco is far more concerning for the public image of Team Sky because that really is as dodgy as hell.

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Re: Cycling

Post by mrblackbat » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:26 am

Jim wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:40 am
I’m reserving judgement until the hearing. He has asthma and has taken a legal substance for it. The issue seems to be around why he has so much in his urine sample and could be due to dehydration or how his body metabolised the normal dose he took. We will see as he’ll get his chance to demonstrate it.

It’s certainly not performance enhancing in any way. Giving an asthma sufferer the ability to breathe like a normal human being during an attack is not performance enhancing or doping. It’s necessary and was done with the full knowledge of team doctors and the authorities.

The Wiggins fiasco is far more concerning for the public image of Team Sky because that really is as dodgy as hell.
He's taken double the legal allowed amount. And been given special dispenation to continue riding. In the past other riders would have been suspended from competition immediately.

To put into context, Simon Yates was banned for a year for taking a less potent asthma drug due to asthma symptoms, with a smaller dosage. But they didn't get a TUE.

Salbutamol is most definitely performance enhancing, hence why there is a limit on how much you can take even if you have asthma and it's prescribed to you. The limit is the amount that would allow you to compete if you have severe asthma symptoms: double that will most certainly allow the rider to take in a higher level of oxygen, filling more red blood cells amd allowing a higher power output in exactly rhe same was as epo or a blood transfusion.

I'm not sure how something unknown is worse than a proven infraction of double the amount of a known performance enhancing drug....

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Re: Cycling

Post by Jim » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:20 am

He took the maximum allowed dosage, with full supervision of Doctors. What appeared was twice the legal limit in his urine. Firstly you don’t need a TUE for Salbutumol, it has to be declared by isn’t subject to a TUE. He also wasn’t given special dispensation. As it’s not a illegal substance it doesn’t incur an immediate ban, it’s incurs a hearing/trial.

I’ve done a lot of research on this since the story broke and there are cases where extreme fatigue and dehydration can cause the salbutamol to metabolise differently and give the appearance of a higher than normal dose. This is what Chris is going to be given chance to demonstrate to avoid a ban. It was widely reported at the time that he was struggling with a particularly bad asthma attack during the latter stages of la Vuelta. You can’t blame the guy for needing to breathe like a non-asthma sufferer.

I’ve also read Doctors thoughts on salbutumol and aside from it being used, very very sparingly as a mask for doping, it doesn’t do anything except clear the obstructions in the airway to allow them to breathe normally. It doesn’t enhance O2 intake over and above what a normal, non-asthma suffering rider would be able to do. It simply puts them on the same plane as non-asthma riders. Exactly why it isn’t a banned substance.

... and again I’ll say there is no proof he’s taken double the dose, only that he’s got double the limit in his urine, which again could be down to biological factors, and I’ve also said I’ll reserve judgement until he proves or disproves what he’s saying.

If he can’t replicate it then yes, he rightly should get a ban and lose his title/medals and yes it would be very very embarrassing for Sky.

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Re: Cycling

Post by theadore » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:09 pm

Just breezing through... Will read properly later... But there is a good summary here

http://inrng.com/2017/12/chris-froomes-salbutamol-case/

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Re: Cycling

Post by mrblackbat » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:02 pm

Jim wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:20 am
He took the maximum allowed dosage, with full supervision of Doctors. What appeared was twice the legal limit in his urine. Firstly you don’t need a TUE for Salbutumol, it has to be declared by isn’t subject to a TUE. He also wasn’t given special dispensation. As it’s not a illegal substance it doesn’t incur an immediate ban, it’s incurs a hearing/trial.

I’ve done a lot of research on this since the story broke and there are cases where extreme fatigue and dehydration can cause the salbutamol to metabolise differently and give the appearance of a higher than normal dose. This is what Chris is going to be given chance to demonstrate to avoid a ban. It was widely reported at the time that he was struggling with a particularly bad asthma attack during the latter stages of la Vuelta. You can’t blame the guy for needing to breathe like a non-asthma sufferer.

I’ve also read Doctors thoughts on salbutumol and aside from it being used, very very sparingly as a mask for doping, it doesn’t do anything except clear the obstructions in the airway to allow them to breathe normally. It doesn’t enhance O2 intake over and above what a normal, non-asthma suffering rider would be able to do. It simply puts them on the same plane as non-asthma riders. Exactly why it isn’t a banned substance.

... and again I’ll say there is no proof he’s taken double the dose, only that he’s got double the limit in his urine, which again could be down to biological factors, and I’ve also said I’ll reserve judgement until he proves or disproves what he’s saying.

If he can’t replicate it then yes, he rightly should get a ban and lose his title/medals and yes it would be very very embarrassing for Sky.
No other team or rider has had this sort of dispensation. Every other team has pretty much immediately suspended their riders as soon as an infraction was detected in a sample. If the B sample came up clean they'd be reinstated and allowed to ride again.

You also are required to get a TUE for higher doses of salbutomol consistent with the amont shown in his sample. You don't need one for small doses. As for him and Sky saying it was within the required dosage; well Lance Armstrong said he never doped. Go figure.

That this test came the day after he got spanked and then suddenly had a massive return to form shows exactly what this is: cheating.

In this case both samples were at twice the allowed amount. He should be immediately banned and have the Vuelta stripped. Rules are rules, limits are limits.

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Re: Cycling

Post by mrblackbat » Mon May 14, 2018 6:59 am

Yates so far looking very strong in this year's Giro; pink jersey and now a stage win.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44101703

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Re: Cycling

Post by theadore » Mon May 14, 2018 9:23 pm

A great performance so far... I've been looking for some brothers to fill the schleck shaped hole... :D

I think dumolain still looms pretty large, even if his form isn't quite there yet, I think it will be tough when the ITT comes around... Yates did well in the prologue but it was a much more climber friendly course.

If he is to win as well he could really do with Chaves losing a bit more time... Having arguably the 2nd best climber in the field as a luxury domestique would be huge in the last week.

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Re: Cycling

Post by Jim » Mon May 14, 2018 9:46 pm

Could the preseason pressure on Froome and Team Sky be finally showing?

Performances haven’t been great all spring by any riders, save flashes at times and although Froome usually isn’t at peak performance at this time (peaking for the Tour de France each season) he’s been shockingly poor so far. Two falls, plain bad results too.

They’ve been losing talented riders also and sure, they’ve gained a few good, promising youngsters. I think Mikel Landa is going to be a huge loss frankly, as Porte was the year before.

Great for Yates though! As a fellow Yorkshire lad I would always root for him when I could. Hope he keeps it up. If Froome can’t win it, I’d hope Yates does.

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Re: Cycling

Post by mrblackbat » Tue May 15, 2018 7:15 am

Jim wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:46 pm
Could the preseason pressure on Froome and Team Sky be finally showing?
It's more likely that he's not been able to take his drugs medicines while under heavy scrutiny...

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Re: Cycling

Post by theadore » Tue May 15, 2018 11:02 pm

theadore wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:23 pm
If he is to win as well he could really do with Chaves losing a bit more time... Having arguably the 2nd best climber in the field as a luxury domestique would be huge in the last week.
Well...

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Re: Cycling

Post by mrblackbat » Sun May 20, 2018 8:08 pm

Froome wins a stage, the Beeb goes nuts, then he has loads more time put into him. Hah.

I reckon Yates will just about lose the pink jersey on Tuesday's TT, but if he can keep his form, should regain whatever defecit (which should be small) in thr big mountains next weekend.

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Re: Cycling

Post by theadore » Mon May 21, 2018 6:24 am

:D

Es did a similar job on Froome... Didn't really buy that he'd made himself a contender, he still need to take 90 seconds on dumolain in the mountains plus march him in the time trial... And then hope that Yates went to pieces.

Doesn't really matter now of course.

Really knife edge now... I'd be surprised to see Yates lose much more than 2 minutes in the TT... But will be interesting to see what His tactics are... Does he try to hold pink and make them attack him in the mountains, or ride conservatively to limit the gap trusting he can take more time and make sunweb defend the Jersey in the process?

Nice to see Lopez and Carapaz having a proper battle for the white jersey as well.

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Re: Cycling

Post by mrblackbat » Tue May 22, 2018 9:16 pm

Thought it would be closer than that after the TT. Good ride by Yates, and Dumoulin perhaps a shade fatigued from his efforts so far.

Probably makes for less exciting riding over the final week, but we'll have to see who attacks him!

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