Brexit....or in.

There must be more to life than football?

Which way would you vote

Remain and voted remain the first time
6
67%
Leave and voted leave the first time
2
22%
Remain but voted leave the first time
0
No votes
Leave but voted remain the first time
1
11%
Can't be arsed
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 9

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Gibbon
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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Gibbon » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:42 pm

Not joking, just clearly read all the wrong bits. Just had another quick look at and even Osbournes covering letter is pretty damning. What a shower of shit Cameron and his little gang were.

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:12 am

Gibbon wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:42 pm
Not joking, just clearly read all the wrong bits. Just had another quick look at and even Osbournes covering letter is pretty damning. What a shower of shit Cameron and his little gang were.
Fair enough. Of course, it cost Osborne his political career when his bluff was called. But the "think tanks" that produce these predictions are still going strong, still getting things wrong and are still being treated as authoritative. It's funny how people complain about "fake news" but still swallow it whole when it says what they want to hear - the BBC's Andrew Neil gets endless abuse and accusations of bias from remain supporters on Twitter for simply quoting economic data because it disproves the forecasts. I think the biggest problem is it took so long to get our say that views on both sides have become too entrenched for the truth to matter.

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:04 pm

Politics generally has become too partisan. This thread demonstrates it. Two party politics shows it; death threats from supposed liberals towards their own party members as a good example.

Democracy doesn't work.

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:00 pm

Well given the lack of vote on the proposed deal it's only a matter of time before a vote of no confidence. Which will be amusing cause Corbyn is anti europe....

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:56 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:00 pm
Well given the lack of vote on the proposed deal it's only a matter of time before a vote of no confidence. Which will be amusing cause Corbyn is anti europe....
I'm not convinced that he is. He just likes to object to everything and anything, and so in a generally pro-European House of Commons he's regularly voted in line with the Eurosceptics. I've yet to hear him voice any coherent opinion either way on the EU, politicians who believe we're better out usually are quite clear on their reasons.

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Jim » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:53 am

Labour have for months now had 6 factors that must be passed by any Brexit deal, most important of all is protecting jobs and workers rights through frictionless trade. Something that May’s deal doesn’t do.

Kier Starmer is the minister responsible for that, and a damn fine politician, but Corbyn has been every bit as determined on those 6 points as any other Labour shadow minister.

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:14 am

Jim wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:53 am
Labour have for months now had 6 factors that must be passed by any Brexit deal, most important of all is protecting jobs and workers rights through frictionless trade. Something that May’s deal doesn’t do.

Kier Starmer is the minister responsible for that, and a damn fine politician, but Corbyn has been every bit as determined on those 6 points as any other Labour shadow minister.
I'll let the BBC answer that.

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:35 am

Point number two is hilarious, for example. It's completely incompatible with leaving the EU, and something the EU would never realistically agree to without affecting the other five points.

But of course you have to leave the land of the partizans to start paying attention to that.....

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:25 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:35 am
Point number two is hilarious, for example. It's completely incompatible with leaving the EU, and something the EU would never realistically agree to without affecting the other five points.

But of course you have to leave the land of the partizans to start paying attention to that.....
But then it suits Labour's current ambition of being the niggling opposition. Set a number of tests where it's impossible to pass them all and they have a reason to disagree with every eventuality. This is after all a party who celebrated being well-beaten into second place at the last election - and they'd have been worse if they had't gained support from remain voters because they were ambiguous over whether they'd see Brexit through or not. Corbyn had an opportunity to try and force an election and take control this week - he's shied away from it because he doesn't know what he'd do if he suddenly had to start making grown up decisions. Fortunately there's some in the Tory party who want to try and make a change before it's too late - we'll see later if there's enough to oust May.

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Jim » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:43 am

He didn’t force a no confidence vote because he’s content to let the Tory party rip itself apart (which is literally what it’s doing given this mornings news). He only gets one shot at a no confidence vote and as is stands the DUP would vote alongside the Tories against it and it would also unite a fractured party against the opposition.

He’s playing a blinder right now. The end goal has always been to force a new election and if that can’t happen, he’s going to get behind the people’s vote.

Labour are ahead in the polls with popular policies. Arguably they should be further ahead but when you’ve got the full might of the right wing press against you, not to mention clandestinely funded Government troll farms (see the articles breaking late last week) targeting the opposition using Foreign office money... it’s not hard to see why.

The establishment needs a shaking up and at the moment it’s in its death throes, lashing out at the coming change any way it can.

The biggest constitutional crisis for a generation with a legitimate deadline for the train going off the cliff edge (no deal) and the Tories are thinking only about themselves. They have the balls to preach about strong and stable and being in the national interest. Absolute joke.

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:09 am

Jim wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:43 am

Labour are ahead in the polls with popular policies.
No they're not. :roll:
https://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Typically, an opposition party should be well ahead at this stage in a parliament term just because whoever is in power will be garnering negative press. The Tories are getting all the normal bad news stories, PLUS May is outdoing herself on a daily basis in the uselessness stakes. They should be getting demolished in the polls, yet Labour are only neck and neck. But that's because Labour's approach is to stay comfortable in second place, remain the virtuous opposition and avoid making any hard decisions.

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:49 pm

Jim wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:43 am
He didn’t force a no confidence vote because he’s content to let the Tory party rip itself apart (which is literally what it’s doing given this mornings news). He only gets one shot at a no confidence vote and as is stands the DUP would vote alongside the Tories against it and it would also unite a fractured party against the opposition.

He’s playing a blinder right now. The end goal has always been to force a new election and if that can’t happen, he’s going to get behind the people’s vote.

Labour are ahead in the polls with popular policies. Arguably they should be further ahead but when you’ve got the full might of the right wing press against you, not to mention clandestinely funded Government troll farms (see the articles breaking late last week) targeting the opposition using Foreign office money... it’s not hard to see why.

The establishment needs a shaking up and at the moment it’s in its death throes, lashing out at the coming change any way it can.

The biggest constitutional crisis for a generation with a legitimate deadline for the train going off the cliff edge (no deal) and the Tories are thinking only about themselves. They have the balls to preach about strong and stable and being in the national interest. Absolute joke.
You seriously think letting a leadership challenge go ahead is a blinder? Wow.

If Corbyn proposed a vote of no confidence now, there would be a decent chance of winning due to the Tory rebel contingent. That goes post leadership contest.

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:11 pm

May wins the confidence vote fairly comfortably. The cynic in me would say the whole thing was a stooge, particularly following the refusal by Labour to call a no confidence vote. Can no longer be a Tory leadership challenge for twelve months, so the hard brexiteers have a choice, May's crappy plan or pen the door for a Labour government. Of course, they seem a bit dim collectively so maybe they'll still do that.....

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:10 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:11 pm
May wins the confidence vote fairly comfortably. The cynic in me would say the whole thing was a stooge, particularly following the refusal by Labour to call a no confidence vote. Can no longer be a Tory leadership challenge for twelve months, so the hard brexiteers have a choice, May's crappy plan or pen the door for a Labour government. Of course, they seem a bit dim collectively so maybe they'll still do that.....
Over a third of votes against though. It's possible she could do us all a favour and quit...

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Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:28 pm

Jim wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:43 am
He didn’t force a no confidence vote because he’s content to let the Tory party rip itself apart (which is literally what it’s doing given this mornings news). He only gets one shot at a no confidence vote and as is stands the DUP would vote alongside the Tories against it and it would also unite a fractured party against the opposition.

He’s playing a blinder right now. The end goal has always been to force a new election and if that can’t happen, he’s going to get behind the people’s vote.

Labour are ahead in the polls with popular policies. Arguably they should be further ahead but when you’ve got the full might of the right wing press against you, not to mention clandestinely funded Government troll farms (see the articles breaking late last week) targeting the opposition using Foreign office money... it’s not hard to see why.

The establishment needs a shaking up and at the moment it’s in its death throes, lashing out at the coming change any way it can.

The biggest constitutional crisis for a generation with a legitimate deadline for the train going off the cliff edge (no deal) and the Tories are thinking only about themselves. They have the balls to preach about strong and stable and being in the national interest. Absolute joke.
Even Keir Starmer is in the camp that thinks Labour should be calling a no confidence vote, "damn fine politician" that he is....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... heresa-may

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