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Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:52 am
by Rover the Top
It's time May stepped aside. More change isn't really what the country needs, but it would be better than the farce she's (not) leading us through. It's almost like she's being hopeless on purpose.

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:02 am
by Ethiaa
I had speculated on the possibility that her entire bonkers approach from day one has been by design. It's just wishful thinking though - the government really is just this shambolic.

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:00 am
by Jim
BoJo should be sacked also for his gaffe that has cost an innocent British citizen 5 more years in jail in Iran. 5 more years a mother is away from her husband and daughter just because the fucking idiot could not quote FACTS to a committee.

His transgression is far worse than Priti’s but so far has been swept under the carpet.

It’s not just individuals, it’s the Tory ideology. The whole bloody lot are rotten to the core.

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:16 am
by Rover the Top
Ethiaa wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:02 am
I had speculated on the possibility that her entire bonkers approach from day one has been be design. It's just wishful thinking though - the government really is just this shambolic.
I dunno, you may be right. If she wants to covertly derail Brexit, then pretending to be all for it but deliberately mishandling the simplest decisions would do the job... :yeahright: But then politics is generally a surreal shambles. None of the parties are behaving in a sensible way or offering viable plans to help ordinary people.

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:19 am
by Ethiaa
The current collection does appear to be particularly venal and stupid. Who'd have thought that I'd look back and think David Cameron was actually not all that bad.

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:23 pm
by theadore
I think the second the election went south was the time for her to stand aside... what we're seeing now is the horror of incompetent MP's with absolutely no leadership to keep them in check.

However I'm not sure, unless she was to call another election and put the other team in place it would be a particularly good thing. The job is just brexit now, and a poisoned chalice - it's hard to see anyone with serious ability and ambition wanting the job now. Worst case, the field is so open that a chancer fills the void... after all, if it wasn't for may last time we could have ended up with Andrea Leadsome... or *shudder* Gove

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:45 pm
by mrblackbat
Ethiaa wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:19 am
The current collection does appear to be particularly venal and stupid. Who'd have thought that I'd look back and think David Cameron was actually not all that bad.
Well, I did try and say a few times.

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:46 pm
by mrblackbat
Jim wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:00 am
It’s not just individuals, it’s politicians. The whole bloody lot are rotten to the core.
Fixed for you.

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:37 pm
by Ethiaa
mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:45 pm
Ethiaa wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:19 am
The current collection does appear to be particularly venal and stupid. Who'd have thought that I'd look back and think David Cameron was actually not all that bad.
Well, I did try and say a few times.
He was still awful. The potential to get an even worse Tory shouldn't stop people from pointing out the need for change :-)

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:39 pm
by Rover the Top
theadore wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:23 pm

However I'm not sure, unless she was to call another election and put the other team in place it would be a particularly good thing.
Putting "the other team" in wouldn't change anything unless they ditched their own ditherer and put someone with sense like Caroline Flint in the hot seat.

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:55 pm
by Rover the Top
Jim wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:00 am
BoJo should be sacked also for his gaffe that has cost an innocent British citizen 5 more years in jail in Iran. 5 more years a mother is away from her husband and daughter just because the fucking idiot could not quote FACTS to a committee.
Are you sure you've got your facts right there?

Re: General Election

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:18 pm
by Jim
He misspoke and said she had been “training journalists” to a committee in Westminster (which is actually what the Iranians accuse her of) before correcting himself and saying correctly that she was on a family holiday, which was the truth.

However Iran have directly used his words, which as a man in such an important and sensitive position should know better, to increase her sentence by 5 more years. They’ve taken his words as fact not just “Boris being Boris” and that is unforgivable to me.

That’s the facts. A woman wrongly imprisioned in the first place is now facing an extended sentence because he fluffed his words.

Re: General Election

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:45 am
by theadore
Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:39 pm
theadore wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:23 pm

However I'm not sure, unless she was to call another election and put the other team in place it would be a particularly good thing.
Putting "the other team" in wouldn't change anything unless they ditched their own ditherer and put someone with sense like Caroline Flint in the hot seat.
Flint seems like an odd choice... being brutally honest I don't remember much about her positions on anything, she seemed like a fairly typical blairite, admittedly one who spoke well when I saw her on TV etc.

I know we disagree on this (and that's ok... ;), the 'other team' comment was fairly tongue in cheek)... but I really don't think that more corporate first, centrist masquerading as left wing Labour would do us any good at the moment. There was a report in the last couple of days about the widening wealth gap... headlines like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Jeff Bezos have more wealth than 40/50% of americans... the top 400 as much as the combined population of canada and mexico (in americans... it was a weird metric).... Apple have more cash reserves than most countries... including us. I think the myth that if we just play nice to big business and give them everything they ask for the money will eventually find its way to us is being exposed.... and that perhaps what we need is a socialist version of the 80s to put the brakes on... even if Corbyn's utopian services spend proves ultimately unsustainable.

Re: General Election

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:25 am
by mrblackbat
So we should just ditch the idea of nations and governments and let the corporations be in charge. They are, anyway.


Re: General Election

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:28 am
by Rover the Top
Jim wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:18 pm
He misspoke and said she had been “training journalists” to a committee in Westminster (which is actually what the Iranians accuse her of) before correcting himself and saying correctly that she was on a family holiday, which was the truth.

However Iran have directly used his words, which as a man in such an important and sensitive position should know better, to increase her sentence by 5 more years. They’ve taken his words as fact not just “Boris being Boris” and that is unforgivable to me.

That’s the facts. A woman wrongly imprisioned in the first place is now facing an extended sentence because he fluffed his words.
I think you're letting political bias decide what "the truth" is. She did work on a BBC project that trained Iranian journalists, and that is believed to be the root of why she was jailed. She also now works for another organisation that does similar things. I couldn't comment on what her actual role involves, nor if she was genuinely just on holiday or not. If you take a step back from the Boris-bashing, you'll realise it's irrelevant - it's no more ok for a British citizen to be jailed for training journalists than it is for going on holiday. And it's certainly not ok for comments discussing and criticising the conviction to be taken out of context as some kind of confession. In going after Johnson, his critics are creating legitimacy to the charge against Zaghari-Ratcliffe; Iranian TV is using the calls for his resignation as weight to the idea it was a confession.

Johnson could have been clearer that he was referring to the allegation against her, but he was arguing that she shouldn't be in jail at all. If Iran choose to mispresent that, then they are the ones who deserve further condemnation.

As for her sentence being increased, do you have a source for that?