Thegreatglobalwarmingswindle

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Gibbon
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Post by Gibbon » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:26 am

Rover the Top wrote:MMGW? :-?
Come on, everyone knows it stands for Man Made Global War....drobes. :scratch: :whistle: ;)

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Post by Rover the Moon » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:31 am

The Global warming industry is the world biggest growing economic sector driven by the creation of fear.

What a good idea it is to clear the whole of Brazil for bio-fuels :scratch:

So being a cynical bugger I will die with the opinion that it is a load of old goldfish piss

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Post by winston_the_cat » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:15 pm

Also called AGW on occasions - anthropogenic global warming. Sorry, wasn't a deliberate attempt to confuse... :angel:

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Post by winston_the_cat » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:20 pm

Rover the Moon wrote:The Global warming industry is the world biggest growing economic sector driven by the creation of fear.

What a good idea it is to clear the whole of Brazil for bio-fuels :scratch:

So being a cynical bugger I will die with the opinion that it is a load of old goldfish piss
I think the majority of scientists, this one at least, realise biofuels are likely to do more harm than good. For the moment they are driving up the price of food to levels billions of the world's poor can't pay anymore. However, the biofuel response is not to address global warming but to fill in the growing gap due to real declines in production of conventional oil (since mid-2005 as was predicted by the biggest Hubbert's Peak exponents).

Combating global warming the clever way would lead to more opportunities, more economic growth and ultimately cheaper energy. But as long as coal is there, it will be burnt, more or less regardless of cost, because energy monopolists can still force anything they decide down our throats. CO2 production is going to accelerate rapidly in the next 2 decades. We'll see much more of the consequences of global warming in our own lifetimes than any of the base case models suggest.

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Post by Rover the Moon » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:47 pm

Guess we'll see then.

Quite looking forwards to Bamber Bridge becomming a seaside resort ;)

Fancy having a promenade at Penwortham-on-sea :-D

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Post by Gibbon » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:09 am

Interesting (though obviously made for simpletons like myself) argument for risk management on global warming. :scratch: link

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Post by Rover the Top » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:25 am

Was rather amused flying with FlyBe last week - apparently they're set on making flying more environmentally friendly. And apart from trying to use fuel more efficiently, they've set up a label system, telling you how much damage your flight will cause - of course, even if your journey isn't vital and you can wait for a 'greener' plane, the flight is going to go ahead anyway. But at least they're doing their bit, eh? :scratch: ;)

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Post by streakyb » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:42 am

Rover the Top wrote:Was rather amused flying with FlyBe
When I last flew on Flybe they welcomed us onboard onto their "low cost airline", me and my boss spulttered a bit at that, our tickets to Milan had cost over £600 each. Fair enough they were last minute booking but surely you cant call urself a low cost airline if you charge that much.

They then told us there would be no food on board as the plane was full and it was choice of food or luggage. Makes you a bit worried on how tight they must be to their weight limit if a trolley of food is too much.


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Re: Thegreatglobalwarmingswindle

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:18 pm


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Re: Thegreatglobalwarmingswindle

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:42 pm

ethiaa wrote:
Global warming may kill thousands!!!

Same study?
Brilliant! :lol: :rofl: :lol:

I reckon people are going to continue to die whatever the weather... :scratch:

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Re: Thegreatglobalwarmingswindle

Post by doz_magic_man » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:04 pm

I've just got back from traveling the world for 3 months and I have to say it's quite alarming how much damage we humans have caused to the environment. There is a hole in the o-zone layer that spreads over the whole of Australia and New Zealand. The Northern Territory state in Australia alone is the size of France, Spain and Italy combined, so we're talking about a pretty large area being affected here. You could feel the sun burning you within minutes without sun block. My friend accidentally skipped putting cream on a portion of her arm and after an afternoon in the sun that portion came out in an awful rash.

I also chatted to people from all nationalities who were all in their early twenties and all have experienced noticeable climate change. The Canadians said that 10-15 years ago they had weeks of endless snow and frost in Winter at temperatures as low as -50, whereas now these cold periods are interspersed with rain and milder temperatures. Coming home to the UK yesterday, I expected it to be freezing. It wasn't that much colder than New Zealand which is currently in Summer! My dad's friend saw council workers doing work on the side of the road topless this morning. That would have been labeled as crazy in 1995.

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Re: Thegreatglobalwarmingswindle

Post by Dr Rover » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:32 am

doz_magic_man wrote:I've just got back from traveling the world for 3 months and I have to say it's quite alarming how much damage we humans have caused to the environment. There is a hole in the o-zone layer that spreads over the whole of Australia and New Zealand. The Northern Territory state in Australia alone is the size of France, Spain and Italy combined, so we're talking about a pretty large area being affected here. You could feel the sun burning you within minutes without sun block. My friend accidentally skipped putting cream on a portion of her arm and after an afternoon in the sun that portion came out in an awful rash.

I also chatted to people from all nationalities who were all in their early twenties and all have experienced noticeable climate change. The Canadians said that 10-15 years ago they had weeks of endless snow and frost in Winter at temperatures as low as -50, whereas now these cold periods are interspersed with rain and milder temperatures. Coming home to the UK yesterday, I expected it to be freezing. It wasn't that much colder than New Zealand which is currently in Summer! My dad's friend saw council workers doing work on the side of the road topless this morning. That would have been labeled as crazy in 1995.
There is no real evidence that we humans are causing the climate change though. it's all circumstantial, and the media doesn't help by parading trying to drum up mass hysteria.

The Earth has been going through periods of climate change ever since it was formed millions of years ago. The ice ages (of which there have been a few) are an example of natural climate change. If you look at the actual climate change evidence, and compare it to solar activity, you find a very good correlation. And there are other, non-human factors that effect it as well. Add all these together, and the actual evidence suggests that we humans have a very small impact on global climate.

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Re: Thegreatglobalwarmingswindle

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:02 am

doz_magic_man wrote:I've just got back from traveling the world for 3 months
Ah! Saw an old post from you yesterday, and wondered why you hadn't been around for a bit... was it a good trip?
and I have to say it's quite alarming how much damage we humans have caused to the environment. There is a hole in the o-zone layer that spreads over the whole of Australia and New Zealand. The Northern Territory state in Australia alone is the size of France, Spain and Italy combined, so we're talking about a pretty large area being affected here. You could feel the sun burning you within minutes without sun block. My friend accidentally skipped putting cream on a portion of her arm and after an afternoon in the sun that portion came out in an awful rash.
So why is there such a big hole over what is mainly a sparsely populated area, and relatively young countries? What effect do bush fires have?
I also chatted to people from all nationalities who were all in their early twenties and all have experienced noticeable climate change. The Canadians said that 10-15 years ago they had weeks of endless snow and frost in Winter at temperatures as low as -50, whereas now these cold periods are interspersed with rain and milder temperatures. Coming home to the UK yesterday, I expected it to be freezing. It wasn't that much colder than New Zealand which is currently in Summer! My dad's friend saw council workers doing work on the side of the road topless this morning. That would have been labeled as crazy in 1995.
All that shows is that the weather changes. Unless you first assume humans are responsible, there's no reason to make a connection.

I can't remember two consecutive years where the weather has been the same - tell me why they should be? And people's memories are unreliable, it's more likely that people will remember extreme conditions from 10-15 years ago and forget about the days that were different. I can remember hot summers from when I was a kid, but people always say English summers are wet. I can remember Blackbat fully disappearing into a big snowdrift when he was 4 or 5, after our school was shut... we don't seem to get that much snow anymore - but then again, maybe it's just that we're twice as tall? But unless something significant happened on a certain day, I couldn't tell you what the weather was like.

And to say the weather was warmer than you expected yesterday proves absolutely nothing. It was -1 degrees when I set off for work, and it didn't get that warm later on - the max temperature predicted for today is just 8 degrees. If it's the same temperature in New Zealand, then I'd suggest they're having a cold summer, despite the sun burning everything to a crisp. ;) It's been freezing for weeks, you've just come back for the mildest few days for a while. I went to the hottest city in Europe, Seville, a few years ago, in one of the peak global temperature years, and froze my nuts off in sub-zero temperatures... The bottom line is that personal experience cannot possibly prove or disprove man made climate change.

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Re: Thegreatglobalwarmingswindle

Post by doz_magic_man » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:06 pm

Yeah traveling was brilliant thanks, I had the time of my life. I'd recommend it to everyone!
Rover The Top wrote:All that shows is that the weather changes. Unless you first assume humans are responsible, there's no reason to make a connection.

If it's the same temperature in New Zealand, then I'd suggest they're having a cold summer, despite the sun burning everything to a crisp. ;) It's been freezing for weeks, you've just come back for the mildest few days for a while.

Actually NZ is having its hottest summer on record. Incidentally we're now returning to normal February UK temperatures so I guess I stepped off the plane into anomalous conditions for this time of year.

We've been around in circles about the cause of this latest global temperature change before. Yes global temperatures have changed considerably in the past, and people often cite the ice age which is an erroneous comparison given that this temperature change occurred over hundreds if not thousands of years. This current phenomena has occurred over a century which saw the birth of rapid industrialisation.

Bore hole samples from icy regions are an accurate indicator of previous global temperatures. Pollen in a layer from 10,000 years ago suggests that the area was warmer at that time because flowers grew nearby. What worries me is that previous temperature shifts are attributable to natural phenomena such as large volcanic eruptions. It's not natural for billions of petrol and diesel engines and power plants to chug smoke into the atmosphere. I was astonished when I visited LA and saw the smog haze covering a massive area of land. To me, there is visible damage and change to the earth and it's too great a coincidence not to have been at least partly influenced by man.

As for the holes in the o-zone layer, they don't form directly over the point where CFC's are emitted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion).

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