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Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:45 pm
by mrblackbat
I do agree that it was correct that parliament should have voted on it, and that the Government were wrong to try and wrangle it through without having a vote. So it was totally worthwhile having the legal challenge.

And alongside that, it was totally correct that the motion should be passed with a big majority.

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:36 am
by Joe
The strange thing was the 100s of MPs who voted in favour of triggering something they think will be fundamentally a bad thing for the country. Quite bizarre.

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:05 pm
by Rover the Top
Joe wrote:The strange thing was the 100s of MPs who voted in favour of triggering something they think will be fundamentally a bad thing for the country. Quite bizarre.
:lol: If only politicians were that simple... Firstly, they're elected to represent their constituents, not themselves, so should be prepared to vote against their own beliefs from time to time (which is why it's a farce that they had to vote anyway). But perhaps more pertinently, most will shape their publicly-stated views to suit whatever they think will win votes, and will quickly change spots if necessary to preserve their careers. I doubt many really believe leaving the EU will be a disaster, hence why they couldn't make a convincing argument for staying.

What is bizarre is that the Shadow Home Secretary went home shortly before the vote...

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:39 pm
by Joe
Rover the Top wrote:
Joe wrote:The strange thing was the 100s of MPs who voted in favour of triggering something they think will be fundamentally a bad thing for the country. Quite bizarre.
:lol: If only politicians were that simple... Firstly, they're elected to represent their constituents, not themselves, so should be prepared to vote against their own beliefs from time to time (which is why it's a farce that they had to vote anyway). But perhaps more pertinently, most will shape their publicly-stated views to suit whatever they think will win votes, and will quickly change spots if necessary to preserve their careers. I doubt many really believe leaving the EU will be a disaster, hence why they couldn't make a convincing argument for staying.

What is bizarre is that the Shadow Home Secretary went home shortly before the vote...
They are elected to represent what they believe to be in the best interests of their constituents actually, which requires them to vote against populist majority from time to time.


Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:08 pm
by Rover the Top
Joe wrote:
Rover the Top wrote:
Joe wrote:The strange thing was the 100s of MPs who voted in favour of triggering something they think will be fundamentally a bad thing for the country. Quite bizarre.
:lol: If only politicians were that simple... Firstly, they're elected to represent their constituents, not themselves, so should be prepared to vote against their own beliefs from time to time (which is why it's a farce that they had to vote anyway). But perhaps more pertinently, most will shape their publicly-stated views to suit whatever they think will win votes, and will quickly change spots if necessary to preserve their careers. I doubt many really believe leaving the EU will be a disaster, hence why they couldn't make a convincing argument for staying.

What is bizarre is that the Shadow Home Secretary went home shortly before the vote...
They are elected to represent what they believe to be in the best interests of their constituents actually, which requires them to vote against populist majority from time to time.
Also true, but doesn't change the two points I made? Parliament put the question to the electorate in the first place, remember...

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:18 pm
by Joe
Rover the Top wrote:
Joe wrote:
Rover the Top wrote:
Joe wrote:The strange thing was the 100s of MPs who voted in favour of triggering something they think will be fundamentally a bad thing for the country. Quite bizarre.
:lol: If only politicians were that simple... Firstly, they're elected to represent their constituents, not themselves, so should be prepared to vote against their own beliefs from time to time (which is why it's a farce that they had to vote anyway). But perhaps more pertinently, most will shape their publicly-stated views to suit whatever they think will win votes, and will quickly change spots if necessary to preserve their careers. I doubt many really believe leaving the EU will be a disaster, hence why they couldn't make a convincing argument for staying.

What is bizarre is that the Shadow Home Secretary went home shortly before the vote...
They are elected to represent what they believe to be in the best interests of their constituents actually, which requires them to vote against populist majority from time to time.
Also true, but doesn't change the two points I made? Parliament put the question to the electorate in the first place, remember...
I think most did make convincing arguments for staying.

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:26 pm
by Rover the Top
Well, no they didn't, because more voted to leave than stay.

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:43 pm
by Joe
Well, yes they did, because I voted to remain.

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:47 pm
by Rover the Top
Joe wrote:Well, yes they did, because I voted to remain.
Well we all make mistakes. ;)

So you're saying you were leaning towards leaving until the pro-remain MPs persuaded you to change your mind? What points swayed you?

Of course, one anecdote doesn't change the fact that they didn't convince the nation as a whole to vote to remain...

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:03 pm
by mrblackbat
The nation as a whole had no idea what the referendum was about. Most people seemed to think it was about immigration and refugees.....

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:47 am
by Rover the Top
mrblackbat wrote:The nation as a whole had no idea what the referendum was about. Most people seemed to think it was about immigration and refugees.....
So the media claimed straight after the result. However, opinion polls suggest political control was the much bigger reason for people wanting out. Also interesting to note that the excessively negative predictions of economic disaster were the main reason for remainers.

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:24 pm
by Ethiaa
Rover the Top wrote:
mrblackbat wrote:The nation as a whole had no idea what the referendum was about. Most people seemed to think it was about immigration and refugees.....
So the media claimed straight after the result. However, opinion polls suggest political control was the much bigger reason for people wanting out. Also interesting to note that the excessively negative predictions of economic disaster were the main reason for remainers.
The political control the govt has said we've always had in the white paper about leaving :-)

People are fucktards

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:57 pm
by mrblackbat
Ethiaa wrote: People are fucktards

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:37 pm
by Ethiaa
mrblackbat wrote:
Ethiaa wrote: People are fucktards

Re: seeing as there ain't one...

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:22 pm
by Rover the Top
Very true. Fucktards disagreeing with fucktards over arguments put forward by fucktards.