Current Events/News

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Rover the Top
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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:48 pm

Gibbon wrote:
Rover the Top wrote:Collectively, both are supporting extreme candidates for self-serving motivations, oblivious to what's in the interests or wants of the majority of the country. Both assume they know better than everyone else as to what's good for everyone else, dismiss any opposition as some force of evil and look within their little bubble to reaffirm that they are on the road to revolution. The irony being, they're only strengthening the position of the opposition as they drive away traditional supporters of their own party.
Crikey! I'm not sure which Corbyn supporters you've been talking to, but that's an unrecognisable definition with regards to the ones I know, myself included.
Well that just backs up what I say about looking inside the bubble? I'm sure there will be Trump supporters who consider themselves to be reasonable people with good intentions and will look over at Corbyn supporters as though they're crazies from another world too. But opinion polls, news reports and social media take a wider picture.

As for all parties assuming they know what's best for everyone else, I don't think that's true. Ones that are serious about getting into government would normally try to find some middle ground that appeals to as many as possible.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Gibbon » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:16 pm

Rover the Top wrote:As for all parties assuming they know what's best for everyone else, I don't think that's true. Ones that are serious about getting into government would normally try to find some middle ground that appeals to as many as possible.
I'm not going to argue with you over your 'bubbles' because you clearly seem to be writing from inside one just as bizarre. :D

However, on the point of parties thinking they know what's best for everyone else, the current tactic, and that of each successful winner of every general election campaign waged in my lifetime as a voter has been to search out a bunch of populist middle ground promises that they then quickly discard upon election and revert to what they think is best for everyone.

Personally, I think people are growing very tired of this, and Corbyn's approach feels like a breath of fresh air.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by wrinks_89 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:21 am


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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Rover the Top » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:45 am

Gibbon wrote: I'm not going to argue with you over your 'bubbles' because you clearly seem to be writing from inside one just as bizarre. :D
The real world? You used the word "bizarre" to describe UKIP taking votes from Labour. ;)

As blackbat said, the Manchester protests mirror the article Wrinks posted. Moderate-left Labour MPs and their staff are being targeted for abuse and even death threats. No doubt you and your friends aren't part of it, but it's happening and it's not just the odd idiot. Meanwhile, opinion polls show he's doing dreadfully with the incumbent government stretching their lead. And that's a government that haven't had the best of times. This isn't from me just asking my friends what they think.

Trump's supporters call his approach a "breath of fresh air" too. ;) He and Corbyn may peddle different aims, but they're both offering to satisfy the pipe dreams of the few whilst disregarding the many. So whilst they get fervent visible support, it's never going to be enough to put themselves in a position where they have to start delivering.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/je ... ct-8613441

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:12 am

Rover the Top wrote:
Gibbon wrote: I'm not going to argue with you over your 'bubbles' because you clearly seem to be writing from inside one just as bizarre. :D
The real world? You used the word "bizarre" to describe UKIP taking votes from Labour. ;)

As blackbat said, the Manchester protests mirror the article Wrinks posted. Moderate-left Labour MPs and their staff are being targeted for abuse and even death threats. No doubt you and your friends aren't part of it, but it's happening and it's not just the odd idiot. Meanwhile, opinion polls show he's doing dreadfully with the incumbent government stretching their lead. And that's a government that haven't had the best of times. This isn't from me just asking my friends what they think.

Trump's supporters call his approach a "breath of fresh air" too. ;) He and Corbyn may peddle different aims, but they're both offering to satisfy the pipe dreams of the few whilst disregarding the many. So whilst they get fervent visible support, it's never going to be enough to put themselves in a position where they have to start delivering.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/je ... ct-8613441
Though, being fair to Trump, he's already demonstrated he has more support than Corbyn.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Gibbon » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:36 am

Rover the Top wrote:
Gibbon wrote: I'm not going to argue with you over your 'bubbles' because you clearly seem to be writing from inside one just as bizarre. :D
The real world? You used the word "bizarre" to describe UKIP taking votes from Labour. ;)

As blackbat said, the Manchester protests mirror the article Wrinks posted. Moderate-left Labour MPs and their staff are being targeted for abuse and even death threats. No doubt you and your friends aren't part of it, but it's happening and it's not just the odd idiot. Meanwhile, opinion polls show he's doing dreadfully with the incumbent government stretching their lead. And that's a government that haven't had the best of times. This isn't from me just asking my friends what they think.

Trump's supporters call his approach a "breath of fresh air" too. ;) He and Corbyn may peddle different aims, but they're both offering to satisfy the pipe dreams of the few whilst disregarding the many. So whilst they get fervent visible support, it's never going to be enough to put themselves in a position where they have to start delivering.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/je ... ct-8613441
Touché on the 'Breath of fresh air' Trump point, though I'd point out that his supporters probably have very different reasons for using it.

The mirror article - I'm surprised they made such an error with the fact on their website, but still encouraged that Corbyn's labour was narrowing the Tory majority before the coup, and convinced it will again afterwards.

And as to Corbyn's policies aiming to satisfy pipe dreams, I'm not sure why you think that's the case. His policies seen worthy and well supported by experts. Whoops, I forgot, we've had enough of experts.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Rover the Top » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:58 pm

Gibbon wrote: Touché on the 'Breath of fresh air' Trump point, though I'd point out that his supporters probably have very different reasons for using it.
No, usually it's exactly what you said - they feel let down by the established politicians and are taken in by someone who's coming from a different angle and is saying what they want to hear. I'm not saying Trump and Corbyn are the same, but people are buying into their messages in the same way.
The mirror article - I'm surprised they made such an error with the fact on their website, but still encouraged that Corbyn's labour was narrowing the Tory majority before the coup, and convinced it will again afterwards.
:lol: It doesn't seem much of a surprise to me, but then I've read Animal Farm... :D It's not an error, it's propaganda. The people who put that website together will know that the claim doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There's a deliberate confusion of cause and effect, the "coup" came about because Corbyn is doing so badly in the polls. You don't win an election by only narrowing the gap to the government, a competent opposition should be comfortably ahead at this stage. But somehow the positive spin works on his supporters. :shrug:
And as to Corbyn's policies aiming to satisfy pipe dreams, I'm not sure why you think that's the case. His policies seen worthy and well supported by experts. Whoops, I forgot, we've had enough of experts.
I'm not really sure what you're going on about there. The point is, it's easy to sucker people in by promising what they want without making the compromises needed to deliver it.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Gibbon » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:33 pm

Rover the Top wrote:You don't win an election by only narrowing the gap to the government, a competent opposition should be comfortably ahead at this stage. But somehow the positive spin works on his supporters. :shrug:


But looking at that graph the gap hadn't just narrowed, it was still narrowing - then coup and it dropped away again. Without the coup they could easily have been ahead by now, and after it they may well recover to do it still.
Rover the Top wrote:
And as to Corbyn's policies aiming to satisfy pipe dreams, I'm not sure why you think that's the case. His policies seen worthy and well supported by experts. Whoops, I forgot, we've had enough of experts.
I'm not really sure what you're going on about there. The point is, it's easy to sucker people in by promising what they want without making the compromises needed to deliver it.
I know what the point you were trying to make was, but the fact of the matter is that his policies can be delivered; a view generally supported by respected experts in their fields.

The reference to having had enough of experts was referring to a (then) member of the current administration, Gove, and his vacuous comment leading up to the referendum. But you knew that.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Rover the Top » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:47 pm

You'll find experts to back up every political policy. But they'll all agree you need the electorate to vote you and a few hundred like-minded MPs into Parliament to deliver on them. ;)

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by wrinks_89 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:02 pm

Gibbon wrote:
Rover the Top wrote:As for all parties assuming they know what's best for everyone else, I don't think that's true. Ones that are serious about getting into government would normally try to find some middle ground that appeals to as many as possible.
I'm not going to argue with you over your 'bubbles' because you clearly seem to be writing from inside one just as bizarre. :D

However, on the point of parties thinking they know what's best for everyone else, the current tactic, and that of each successful winner of every general election campaign waged in my lifetime as a voter has been to search out a bunch of populist middle ground promises that they then quickly discard upon election and revert to what they think is best for everyone.

Personally, I think people are growing very tired of this, and Corbyn's approach feels like a breath of fresh air.
Where's my round of applause icon! :lol: *shakes fist*

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by wrinks_89 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:51 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/brendan-dasse ... d-10533863
Not sure if any of you watched making of a murderer but here's the latest on Brendan Dassey...

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by mrblackbat » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:35 am

Thats brilliant news. In the whole sordid episode, he was clearly a victim and obviously not involved other than as someone to spoof up evidence against Avery.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by wrinks_89 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:40 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... ebook-post
Horrific news, once again, this morning.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by wrinks_89 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:43 am

mrblackbat wrote:Thats brilliant news. In the whole sordid episode, he was clearly a victim and obviously not involved other than as someone to spoof up evidence against Avery.
What's your stance on Steven Avery being guilty? I thought there would have been more regarding the ex and room mate as I found that suspicious.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by mrblackbat » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:10 am

wrinks_89 wrote:
mrblackbat wrote:Thats brilliant news. In the whole sordid episode, he was clearly a victim and obviously not involved other than as someone to spoof up evidence against Avery.
What's your stance on Steven Avery being guilty? I thought there would have been more regarding the ex and room mate as I found that suspicious.
I think the programme deliberately leaves out some of the potentially more incriminating evidence against Avery.

I'm also worried about the trend in these things becoming TV show trials, along with the Peter Jackson doc on the West Memphis 3 wherby the very firmly accuse another guy with just as flimsy evidence as those convicted. In the Avery case there was 120 hours of evidenc submitted during the trial, the entire documentary is ten hours long.

The only thing I'm certain of is that the processing by the Manitowoc sheriff department was atrocious and they constantly flaunted the judgement that they should have absolutely no dealing in the case.

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