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Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:29 pm
by mrblackbat
Has anyone been dabbling in these over the last month or so? Despite various issues with exchanges being down or failing to allow authentication and so on, there are still plenty of coins on the massive rise. Ridiculously volatile of course. Ripple (XRP) seems to be on a surge, having gone from around $0.25 to peaking over $3 for the first time. And rumours suggesting that Coinbase will take it on this month are tipping a $5 price by the weekend.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:17 pm
by Gibbon
It’s probably worth it if you’re cautious and know what you’re doing. (Which I’m not sure I do) As you say, ridiculously volatile though, so you have to be prepared to move quickly, or stay in during the dips.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:34 pm
by Ethiaa
Pyramid schemes basically. Get in early to milk the hopeful latecomers. Get out before the crash.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:57 pm
by mrblackbat
Ethiaa wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:34 pm
Pyramid schemes basically. Get in early to milk the hopeful latecomers. Get out before the crash.
Not really true at all, unless you're counting all finance in the world as a pyramid scheme.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:27 pm
by Ethiaa
mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:57 pm
Ethiaa wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:34 pm
Pyramid schemes basically. Get in early to milk the hopeful latecomers. Get out before the crash.
Not really true at all, unless you're counting all finance in the world as a pyramid scheme.
Pretty much, yes. It all relies on someone at the bottom getting screwed.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:45 am
by mrblackbat
But what with a pyramid scheme being specifically set up to dupe someone into being screwed, currency exchanges, fiat or crypto or whatever, clearly are not pyramid schemes.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:25 am
by theadore
True - but I think Eth's point stands on this one. People who don't know what they're doing and wouldn't invest in standard less accessible markets are being encouraged to borrow and invest in cryptocurrencies, by people and organisations who are interested in boosting only their own financial stake.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:19 pm
by mcteeth
Yeah I'd say with crypto the way they're being marketed for people to invest is definitely more akin to a pyramid scheme.

Not done it myself yet but a few friends now involved they all seem to have gone either BTC or Ethereum, not sure I know enough yet to get involved.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:18 pm
by mrblackbat
Do you guys actually know what a pyramid scheme is?

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:16 am
by Rover the Top
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:18 pm
Do you guys actually know what a pyramid scheme is?
Yeah, a blueprint for building an Egyptian tomb... :shrug:

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:18 pm
by mcteeth
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:18 pm
Do you guys actually know what a pyramid scheme is?
Yes...

The reason why I'd liken it to Cypto is that possibly the primary factor in holding any investment isn't what you think about the currency it's other potential investors think about the currency. Essentially you want a lot of people to believe that your Cypto currency is the one that is going to make them a return, much like the promise of any pyramid scheme.

Whilst you could say that relationship exists to some degree in other such investments, say in Gold or Apple, it doesn't feel as decisive a factor. Perhaps this is because Cypto isn't a tangible thing people can see and fully understand. It may also seem this way because it's becoming popular in the age of social media and the way it's being marketed currently.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:34 pm
by mrblackbat
mcteeth wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:18 pm
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:18 pm
Do you guys actually know what a pyramid scheme is?
Yes...

The reason why I'd liken it to Cypto is that possibly the primary factor in holding any investment isn't what you think about the currency it's other potential investors think about the currency. Essentially you want a lot of people to believe that your Cypto currency is the one that is going to make them a return, much like the promise of any pyramid scheme.

Whilst you could say that relationship exists to some degree in other such investments, say in Gold or Apple, it doesn't feel as decisive a factor. Perhaps this is because Cypto isn't a tangible thing people can see and fully understand. It may also seem this way because it's becoming popular in the age of social media and the way it's being marketed currently.
I think you've just demonstrated that you don't know what a pyramid scheme is....

The price of crypto currencies is directly linked to how much someone is prepared to pay for it, the same as any other fiat currency or stocks for that matter. The difference, at least for most with exceptions like xrp, is that they aren't backed by a central controlling government. Which can be both a good thing and a bad thing depending on your perspective.

In the case of xrp, its actually a method of transacting international currency at a much faster rate and cheaper cost than the current method used by banks; several small Asian banks already use it and there are a lot of rumours that more banks and exchanges will pick it up. So it actually has some intrinsic value of its own right.

Whereas a pyramid scheme is where I get ten people to give me a load of money, and when they get ten people each to give me a load of money, I give them theirs back and a tiny fraction of the ten people's dosh they collected from. And repeat.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:05 pm
by Gibbon
CryptoKitties :yeahright:
Launched a few days ago, CryptoKitties is essentially like an digital version of Pokemon cards but based on the Ethereum blockchain. And like most viral sensations that catch on in the tech world, it’s blowing up fast.

Built by Vancouver and San Francisco-based design studio AxiomZen, the game is the latest fad in the world of cryptocurrency and probably soon tech in general.

People are spending a crazy amount of real money on the game. So far about $1.3M has been transacted, with multiple kittens selling for ~50 ETH (around $23,000) and the “genesis” kitten being sold for a record ~246 ETH (around $113,000). This third party site tracks the largest purchases made to date on the game. And like any good viral sensation prices are rising and fluctuating fast. Right now it will cost you about .03 ETH, or $12 to buy the least expensive kitten in the game.
It amuses me that the Ethereum Blockchain is constantly shorthanded as 'Eth'.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:19 pm
by mcteeth
Blackbat I didn't say it was a pyramid scheme I said it was akin to one, as in it has some similar characteristics. Yes this is an opinion but it's something that has been written about a fair bit.

A strategist from JP Morgan for example has said along the lines of:

The scarcity of bitcoin some evangelists cite as bolstering the cryptocurrency’s value actually illuminates the pyramid-like nature of the scheme. Because if it is unprofitable to mine new bitcoin, then it follows that new or prospective bitcoin buyers might ask whether they are really getting something of value in buying existing bitcoin or simply enriching the early owners who own a disproportionate amount of the asset.

Additionally, the proliferation of cryptocurrencies we’ve seen of late indicates that players in the space may merely be extracting value from new members and not actually creating cryptocurrencies which are worth anything.

So similar to a pyramid scheme the values accrue up the chain while the losses flow down.


I'm not saying the above is right or wrong it's just an interesting point of discussion, whilst I'm obviously mindful that it isn't a shock to hear a large bank outline some skepticism.

Re: Cryptocurrencies

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:53 pm
by mrblackbat
It has zero characteristics of a pyramid scheme.

That stuff from JP Morgan is just them getting in a fuss because someone else got hold of the majority of an asset before they did. Its hypocritical; they're rich cause they disproportionately hold wealth on the old currencies.