Today's random stupidity story...

There must be more to life than football?
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Ethiaa
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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Ethiaa » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:42 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Ethiaa wrote: Wouldn't it be hypocritical to want it well below what he earns? :yeahright:
Only if he plans to keep the same salary after introducing the cap.
Is he a professional footballer?

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:47 pm

mrblackbat wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38579126

So.... Russia doesn't have compromising material on Trump. Both parties say so. Must be true....

:yeahright:
And in his speech at today's Press Conference Tump clarifies he has no loans with Russia. Did anyone suggest he had?!? :?

Ergo... Trump has some loans with Russia and they're putting pressure on him??

Anyway, lovely illustration of the Trump method to blind trusting:-

Image

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:21 am

Yep, lets take Bill Gates' money off him, not like he's doing any good with it himself... :footinmouth:

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by theadore » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:28 am

...And the fixation continues. ;)

If only all people were as generous bill gates, sadly he seems very much an outlier generosity wise... Might as well start looking for blackbats benevolent dictator

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Ethiaa » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:50 am

He is an outlier wealth wise as well - he can afford to be an outlier in terms of philanthropy with little impact. If you measured generosity as a percentage of wealth, he might still be doing OK but I suspect he is far from at the top of the list.

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:14 pm

theadore wrote: If only all people were as generous bill gates, sadly he seems very much an outlier generosity wise... Might as well start looking for blackbats benevolent dictator
From Oxfam's list of 8, Buffett and Zuckerberg have also publicly pledged to give away their fortunes. I'd have to look up the rest, but I'm sure they must all sit at home laughing maniacally to themselves at the thought of taunting peasants with their wealth... :yeahright: Scale-wise, yes no one is as generous as Gates, because no one can afford to be. But I'm not sure it's right to assume he's an anomaly and the vast majority wouldn't do the same in that position, plenty give what they feel they can given their own financial position. If you were worth £62bn, what would you do?

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:29 pm

theadore wrote:...And the fixation continues. ;)

If only all people were as generous bill gates, sadly he seems very much an outlier generosity wise... Might as well start looking for blackbats benevolent dictator
It is the best form of government, afterall. ;)

He's not the only person on that list that donates significant amounts to good causes either. The wealth imbalance is a problem though; more so because the vast majority of that wealth doesn't really exist as a concrete thing.

But, at the same time, that ridiculous amount of make believe wealth also provides a significant amount of people's livelihoods too.

Ultimately, though, I think that the next significant breakthrough in our society (essentially either replicator tech, which is the one thing that will remove poverty; or significant AI and automation of production meaning that menial tasks become unnecessary) will come from a single, mega rich, philanthropist though, as the humanity as a collective is too greedy and self centred to have the focus to do it.

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

mrblackbat wrote:Made me think of John from working in your warehouse!

I think it makes far more sense to look at the kind of proposal that was put forward in Switzerland, whereby everyone gets a national salary and you can supplement as you wish through employment.
Finland trial basic income.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38593513

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:49 pm

"Now that I will get a salary in addition to the basic income I might try even harder," she suggests.
I'm hoping that the "might" is a translation issue...

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:01 pm

mrblackbat wrote: Finland trial basic income.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38593513
It's going to be good for those who already choose to work rather than rely on benefits - "here's your new co-worker, who'd be sat on their arse at home if they weren't getting paid out of your taxes so that they can be better off than you for doing the same job". :yeahright: I'm not really clear on how they plan to expand it if they deem the trial a success?

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Gibbon » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:25 pm

It seems like a good idea to me, even if companies take advantage of it by offering an inverse reduction in their standard wages - employees would be no worse off and companies would actually make more profit leading to more room for investment and expansion.

I'm not sure why those that choose to sit at home and do nothing would suddenly step up and get jobs, as this removes the necessity to do that. And it'd mean that undesirable low paid jobs would suddenly become viable means of topping up income for the under-skilled.

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:53 pm

Gibbon wrote:It seems like a good idea to me, even if companies take advantage of it by offering an inverse reduction in their standard wages - employees would be no worse off and companies would actually make more profit leading to more room for investment and expansion.

I'm not sure why those that choose to sit at home and do nothing would suddenly step up and get jobs, as this removes the necessity to do that. And it'd mean that undesirable low paid jobs would suddenly become viable means of topping up income for the under-skilled.
I think you're highlighting one of the ways it could go wrong there? The report says the aim is to make working more financially beneficial to the unemployed - if employers can offset the basic income against what they pay themselves, then the low paid jobs remain as low paid, and the spongers keep on sponging... Other than that, I'm not sure it's that different to raising the tax-free band of income tax, where the jobless can "top up" their income just by getting a job. :idea:

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Gibbon » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:10 pm

Surely if undesirable jobs remain financially undesirable then no one would take them - much like now. I imagine minimum wage would prevent them from dropping those anyway

I think the impact would be higher up the food chain on higher salaries.

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by theadore » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:16 pm

Gibbon wrote:I'm not sure why those that choose to sit at home and do nothing would suddenly step up and get jobs, as this removes the necessity to do that. And it'd mean that undesirable low paid jobs would suddenly become viable means of topping up income for the under-skilled.
It means that people who want to work at things that aren't going to provide for them straight away have the means to survive while they work at it. If you want to start a business or retrain in something new... if you want to dedicate yourself to voluntary work either permanently or with a view to permanent work down the line, you can do so with your basic living expenses catered for.

You have to accept that there will always be people who just never work... who are happy with the bare minimum that the state provides.

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:32 pm

One of the really cool things about a national wage is the ability to allow people to do volunteer work. I know my partner would be interested in doing something like that, at least on a part time basis, should it ever be introduced here. The viability of part time work, and unpaid work is where it really hits the mark for me. Focusing on scroungers isn't really the issue. People who don't want to work won't work under any system. But they also shouldn't just be left to rot, because, well, we're better than that. Do away with benefits, complicated tax systems, and instead just tax everyone x of what they earn, and pay everybody a flat wage.

I think the arguments on the article Eth posted are pretty good examples of why a national wage is actually a preferable system than a tax break.

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