Today's random stupidity story...

There must be more to life than football?
User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 14297
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:11 pm

Yeah but that's not quite what's happening here; going on TV to highlight problens with racist remarks brings it out into the open and can ultimately umend up with measures being made to deal with it.

Just like going on TV to encourage people to lock their cars and show what happens if you don't would allow people to be aware of the problem.

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 26807
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:34 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:11 pm
Yeah but that's not quite what's happening here; going on TV to highlight problens with racist remarks brings it out into the open and can ultimately umend up with measures being made to deal with it.

Just like going on TV to encourage people to lock their cars and show what happens if you don't would allow people to be aware of the problem.
Whilst I see your point about raising awareness, I'm not sure it's just like telling people to lock their cars to prevent theft. What exactly is the message to avoid (racist) abuse? Don't become shadow home secretary? You could advocate stricter monitoring of the public so that people can't hide anonymously, but that would be a very worrying road to take.

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 14297
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:32 pm

I think there's a very valid point about how easy and in some ways, accepted it is to abuse people online. I thibk there are also people that may not fall into the bracket of someone who is likely to increase their patterns of abuse because it worked.

There could well be people that actually feel ashamed when it's highlighted.

User avatar
theadore
Inexperienced manager
Posts: 9566
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:25 pm

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by theadore » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:07 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:32 pm
There could well be people that actually feel ashamed when it's highlighted.
I always thought this would be a good idea...

Image

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 26807
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:07 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:32 pm
I think there's a very valid point about how easy and in some ways, accepted it is to abuse people online. I thibk there are also people that may not fall into the bracket of someone who is likely to increase their patterns of abuse because it worked.

There could well be people that actually feel ashamed when it's highlighted.
Or that could just be a way to deflect the anger directed at them when they're caught out doing something they knew was wrong but thought they could get away with?

I don't follow what you're trying to say with your second sentence? There's people who won't repeat offend just because it worked? Probably true, but what would you achieve by targetting them without tackling the serial offenders?

Whilst it's easy to abuse online, it's also easy to walk away from it. Perhaps that's what the message should be?

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 14297
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:08 pm

theadore wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:07 pm
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:32 pm
There could well be people that actually feel ashamed when it's highlighted.
I always thought this would be a good idea...

Image
:lol:

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 14297
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:11 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:07 pm
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:32 pm
I think there's a very valid point about how easy and in some ways, accepted it is to abuse people online. I thibk there are also people that may not fall into the bracket of someone who is likely to increase their patterns of abuse because it worked.

There could well be people that actually feel ashamed when it's highlighted.
Or that could just be a way to deflect the anger directed at them when they're caught out doing something they knew was wrong but thought they could get away with?

I don't follow what you're trying to say with your second sentence? There's people who won't repeat offend just because it worked? Probably true, but what would you achieve by targetting them without tackling the serial offenders?

Whilst it's easy to abuse online, it's also easy to walk away from it. Perhaps that's what the message should be?
I think the message should be just because it's easy to abuse online, doesn't mean you should do it.

I think the XKCD comic Theadore kindly linked highlights my second point particularly well.

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 26807
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:40 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:11 pm

I think the XKCD comic Theadore kindly linked highlights my second point particularly well.
Does it also apply to the maker of XKCD comics? Yourself? :yeahright: The world isn't just filled with nice, well-meaning people who only do bad things because they weren't thinking.

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 14297
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:26 am

Nor is every bad thing done in fullly thought out maliciousness malice.

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 26807
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:04 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:26 am
Nor is every bad thing done in fullly thought out maliciousness malice.
Uh huh... so what percentage of your messages on here are not deliberate? How many times a week do you accidentally type the n-word or other equally inappropriate language? Would you feel ashamed and a moron if I read a selection of your comments back to you?
Not every bad action is malicious, but sending an abusive message online is a conscious act. Firstly, you've got to have it in you to say something commonly recognised as wrong, then you've got to make the effort to type and send it. If you're not that way inclined, then perhaps it's easier to explain away by saying people don't realise they're morons, but then you're judging them by the standards you have rather than what they have. Which isn't reasonable because you wouldn't make that kind of comment in the first place.

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 14297
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:00 pm

I've posted plenty of things on here that I kinda feel I went too far on, yes. :shrug:

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 26807
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:23 am

So you'd rather imply you could unintentionally post racist abuse you don't agree with than concede I have a point? Interesting... :lol: I hope you've missed some context.

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 14297
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:49 pm

Yes you clearly are missing quite a lot of stuff on this topic. You don't have a point. None of this is Diane Abbott's fault, and talking about racism openly is exactly the right thing to do. I'm amazed that you seem to be suggesting it's somehow her fault and that she should just put up and shut up.

As for people not realising how hurtful something they say might be, this can happen all the time. For example I was talking in open conversation recently about Narcos, inadvertantly with a Colombian who was living through it. Some of the jokes made, by people including myself were actually pretty inappropriate in that company and we all ended up profusely apologising when it was pointed out they were Colombian and the comments were pretty close to the bone.

I'm sure in the case of abuse online that Diane Abbott has received, there are people who, when reflecting and with the knowledge of the accumulation of abuse received, might actually feel pretty bad about it and may, in the future, change their actions.

All the while, you seem to be focussed on scoring "points".... doesn't come across well.

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 26807
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:45 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:49 pm
Yes you clearly are missing quite a lot of stuff on this topic. You don't have a point. None of this is Diane Abbott's fault, and talking about racism openly is exactly the right thing to do. I'm amazed that you seem to be suggesting it's somehow her fault and that she should just put up and shut up.
Where did I say that? Oh yes, I didn't, you're making up a straw man because you've argued your way into a corner. Try understanding what other people are saying to you for a change instead of going on the offensive. I didn't say Abbott should "put up" with abuse, I said highlighting what really offends her in the way she has isn't going to deal with it, it'll just increase the amount she gets. Which is a logical conclusion: if someone wants to injure you, telling them the best way to do it is going to determine how they do it, not dissuade them. Your argument that people don't know they're being hurtful doesn't ring true, it's just not credible to suggest people would target someone with specific racist language and death threats without understanding exactly the impact. That's the part you're clearly not considering, as it's very different to offending someone because you simply didn't know or take into account their background. The attacks on Abbott (and other MPs) are deliberate actions.

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 14297
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:27 pm

Yawn. RTT in straw man argument cause he wants to win points again. :shrug:

Post Reply