Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

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WacoRover
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Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by WacoRover » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:35 pm

No discussion at all here during the game- no one care about the FA Cup anymore? If that isn’t the case, was anybody surprised by Mowbray’s selection of his starters or his game management? Was it the expected result? If so, I suppose no comments are necessary.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by Duggywerefab » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:40 am

Waco,

Good question. I'll join in. Maybe I am a bit old fashioned (!) but I assume somebody paid to watch this online, did we give value? Did we seem to be aware of the need to at least look motivated? According to reports by fans (admitedly on FB), TM acted even less interested today than in a normal league game. Mr Personality he isn't, and although he's not hired for that, it can go along way. Whether we like it or not (I don't) footy is a business with customers, events, assets, liabilities (we have quite a few of those it seems), goals (pun intended) and progress or setbacks. If TM wasn't interested in trying to give value to the paying punters today, he should have said so, donated the large wagebill to charity and given a free stream to fans.

Having spent most of my working life in retail, I believe a business, at the customer contact level, reflects the leader, good and bad. At t'Rovers now, there seems no excitement, joy, purpose or even interest in winning by this team once they take the field, despite the fact that individually we have some very talented, exciting and motivated players. That comes down from the leader who, let's not forget, probably makes more than all of us put together.

He was hired at a terrible time for the club, he stabilized us, put up with a lot of grief, kept his nerve, led us back into the Championship and probably made a decent bonus, which he richly deserved, no question. He's not an idiot, nor clueless, as some shout. He seems an honourable man and a genuinely good person, compared with some others in that trade. But he's stalled. We know it, our opponents certainly know it and I suspect he knows it. Happens all the time in business and someone has to put the CEO hat on and have that 15 minute Monday morning meeting. Buy him out, reward him well for restoring some pride (and for finding Dack), give him a free seat for life, but respectfully walk him to the door....

As a 60+ year "emotional" shareholder (wish I was a real shareholder!) I have to have my say at this shareholder's meeting. Thanks all, if you got this far.

Up the Rovers!

Duggywerefab

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by WacoRover » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:04 am

Duggy,
Thank you for responding. I’ve always admired your love for the club, & candor, and I agree with what you say here.

I suppose I’m an emotional shareholder... although much less than any of you. Most of us here at Roverstalk have defended Mowbray all along; we’ve appreciated him for his leadership, steering us back to the Championship, & as you say, finding us a couple of good player bargains (and a couple who maybe weren’t such good bargains).

At this moment, Rovers lead the Championship in goals scored. Quite amazing, when you look at our lengthy list of walking wounded. But, we also see over the time he’s been here, the defending has been lacking. Rovers still have 4 defenders who have been here since we were in League 1. That was the 2017-2018 season.

As you stay, we’ve stalled. Mid table finishes are delivered. After promotion, we were 15th. Then 11th. Right now, we’re 11th. This season, the talk was Rovers would be in position to move into a playoff place, if not auto promotion. Then, it all came undone. First, Dack’s injury from a year ago. Then, covid. Then, massive amounts of other players lost due to injuries.

So, what am I saying? Does Mowbray’s time need to be up?
I truly don’t know. Some say if he’s sacked, there’s nobody better to replace him. I do not believe that. Mark Hughes is available, and he’s a young man (one year younger than me IS young!) So, if someone says an alternative is never offered, I’ve just offered one.

The bottom line... I don’t see giving him time beyond the end of the season, if we cannot challenge for a playoff place by then. We’re simply not going to see the defending improved appreciably, anytime soon. But, based on the lack of permanent transfers since 2017, how would we know he was ever going to address the weakness long-term, anyway? Do not forget, Adarabioyo & Cunningham were loaners last year, that wasn’t enough to get us up from 11th in the league, neither are Douglas & Ayala this year.

I’ve said too much. But, we need to have some kind of expectations to move above 11th. If we cannot do it by the end of the season, I’m ready to move on without Mowbray.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by Gibbon » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:27 am

Do you have confidence that he would be replaced by someone better? That’s what it boils down to.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by RoverthePennines » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:21 am

Mark Hughes is a dreadful choice

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by mcteeth » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:26 am

First and foremost we need to stick with Mowbray sacking him would be very rash and could lead to disaster.

Not overly fussed about the cup especially given the current situation with no fans but yesterday was still disappointing.

Pears with a total howler given a rare half chance for Doncaster, how Lenihan, Buckley or Dack didn't score they will only know. We huffed and puffed with not a lot of cohesion and some very erratic rushed passing. It wasn't good enough.

I don't care that we're out of the cup, I care about the further damage this will do to Mowbray with some of the fanbase given this was a chance to get a good win under our belt.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by stillgrowling » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:47 pm

After their experience with multi choice managers Venkys will be understandably reluctant to wield the axe, particularly in the light of some of the antics going on at Sheffield Wednesday, Watford and other clubs.
Nevertheless I'm with most fans who are willing for Mowbray to see the season out - he deserves that, and after all he has had to put up with an extraordinary injury list. However those key injured players are are now returning, and the fans and owners are entitled to see a fair measure of improvement in the next few weeks.
Like Sam, Mowbray has been a 'safe pair of hands', but I think we are entitled to see the team progressing beyond mere 'safety'. Time will tell.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by WacoRover » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:36 pm

Gibbon wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:27 am
Do you have confidence that he would be replaced by someone better? That’s what it boils down to.
No, I don’t really have confidence he would be Replaced by anyone better. But, I do not feel mediocrity should be rewarded.

I appreciate everyone’s replies. I look up to all you, as you love the club and want what best. I don’t want a sacking now, I think that would be terrible for the club. So, I expect to see a bunch of 4-3 games to the end of the season, & hope Dack & Travis’ return pays off, as I don’t see this defending improving before then. If we get to the end & we’re 8th or 9th, with the games lost due to injury, I don’t see why sacking him would make sense... unless the manager has clearly been identified as hitting the mark in all the desirable areas- recruiting, mgmt, game-day coaching, etc.

If we’re worse by the end of the season than now, I think we should move on to somebody else.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by Ethiaa » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:08 am

I think you have unreasonable expectations of success. What makes us so special? Nothing at all as far as I can see.

We're just another Championship club and happen to have a manager who has put together a team that is scoring more than any other in the league despite some injury issues and is a solid mid table outfit with some potential for more. On that basis I'd much rather sack the fans.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by Rover the Top » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:15 am

It's funny, I was just thinking over the weekend that the one benefit of this forced detachment from football was that it at least stopped fans getting antsy and making unreasonable demands to make managers unemployed. Oh well...

Mowbray's more than proved himself competent over the last four years. We're massively improved as a team under him. I don't see the reason for the lack of faith that he can continue developing the side over forthcoming seasons. We've seen time and time again that replacement managers rarely get the instant success that's sought after, often they struggle to get results with a squad assembled for someone else's plan. I'm a broken record on this, but sacking managers is nearly always detrimental, it should only be a last throw of the dice.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by WacoRover » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:46 pm

Ethiaa wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:08 am
I think you have unreasonable expectations of success. What makes us so special? Nothing at all as far as I can see.

We're just another Championship club and happen to have a manager who has put together a team that is scoring more than any other in the league despite some injury issues and is a solid mid table outfit with some potential for more. On that basis I'd much rather sack the fans.
Special? We’re just as special as Leeds, Or Sheffield United. Certainly as special as Bournemouth. We’ve finished 15th; 11th; and 11th so far this season. I don’t think it’s out of line to hope for 8th or 9th. If so, why bother having a team, if you can’t hope for something better this year than last.

Why would Mowbray get Elliott, Ayala, Trybull, etc, if not trying to improve? Maybe Mowbray comes up with Pickering or branthwaite, & strengthens the defending. Meantime, Nyambe returns.
I can hope we improve somewhat. I don’t know why I’d expect us to stay where we are, with players like Arma, Dack, Elliott, I have to think we’re closer than we’ve been in some time.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by Ethiaa » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:02 pm

The manager has assembled a half decent squad - sack him if he now doesn't achieve success? Because we need someone to whom we can waste more money to take us to the 'next level'?

It's a fantasy that fans tell themselves to make it feel like there are easy and obtainable actions that have a concrete impact on the outcome for their team. Despite decades of history to educate everybody, how is it not apparent that football simply does not work that way?

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by WacoRover » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:34 pm

Ethiaa wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:02 pm
The manager has assembled a half decent squad - sack him if he now doesn't achieve success? Because we need someone to whom we can waste more money to take us to the 'next level'?

It's a fantasy that fans tell themselves to make it feel like there are easy and obtainable actions that have a concrete impact on the outcome for their team. Despite decades of history to educate everybody, how is it not apparent that football simply does not work that way?
Success...
That means different things to different people. Wycombe fans have never seen their club in the Championship until now. This is success to them.

I said give him to the end of the season. That’s enough time. I’m not so naive, as to think wishing something makes something come true.

I’ve been a Dallas Cowboys fan over 50 years, same with the University of Texas Longhorns. Cowboys last won a Super Bowl the same year Rovers won the PL... over 25 years ago. You think I want Jerry Jones to keep screwing things up, and they stay mediocre? I expect better. Texas Longhorns won the national title in 2005. I can hope they win it again.

No way can I be content with Rovers being mid table in the Championship. I don’t think Mowbray is, why should I?

Finish 8th or 9th. Maybe nick a playoff spot. Then evaluate Mowbray at seasons end. Why would I be content to see Rovers finish 11th again.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by Thorisgodpoo » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:16 pm

Because there are 23 other clubs that have the same aspiration and goal as everyone else, filled with people that are entirely able to make mistakes at any given moment.

This is the massive difference between American football and the round kind, there is so much talent in world football that there is no one specific player (especially in 2nd tier) that will be able to make everyone absolutely better. Unfortunately, we are stuck with who we have for now, and that's just the nature of it. There's no money to be injected, our owners have done the right thing by letting Mowbray do what he needs to do to try and be successful, and build.

I know as a Browns fan, you have to have patience. If you win, awesome. If you dont, you write it off, learn from it, and hope the next time will yield something better.

My only complaint with Mowbray is his system is set at the beginning of the season, and then there's no tinkering beyond that.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:52 am

Thorisgodpoo wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:16 pm
Because there are 23 other clubs that have the same aspiration and goal as everyone else, filled with people that are entirely able to make mistakes at any given moment.
The elephant in the room... all the other teams :D

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