England v Croatia

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Rover the Top
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Re:

Post by Rover the Top » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:05 pm

Gibbon wrote:Not a big fan of Wayne Bridge then? On recent performances, I'd have Bridge in the side ahead of Cole or Baines.
I was, but he's been out for so bloody long, I couldn't justify picking him ahead of the other two.

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Joe
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Post by Joe » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:04 pm

TEAM NEWS:

Carson, Richards, Bridge, Gerrard, Lescott, Campbell, Barry, Lampard, Crouch, Wright-Phillips, J Cole. Subs: A Cole, James, Brown, Hargreaves, Defoe, Beckham, Bent.

So no Bentley in the squad.

We have put an out and out left back on the bench, despite having 3 players in the starting line up who can all switch to leftback if needed. It can't be because Cole can be an attacking threat from the bench, because if that's the case why not start him?

Also is Smith injured? Becasue why does Bent go straight onto the bench ahead of him, despite Smith being called up ahead of Bent? I'm not saying he's any better, but surely if Mclaren thinks he is better he should have picked him in the first place?

I'm in a strage mood going into this game. My head tells me I should want England to go through obviously. But really I don't think I would really care if we didn't. It would probably be different if Bentley was involved, but I'll admit I'm a Rovers fan miles before I'm an England fan.

If we go out there tonight and play out our skins and play brilliant football to watch and attack from the start to finnish (like Mclaren said we will)I hope we go through, but I can't see that happening. We'll probably score sometime in the first half then switch to defensive for the rest of the match, which is fucking boring and has cost us many times in the past.

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Re:

Post by NY Rover » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:45 pm

Dan wrote:
Joe wrote:
Dan wrote:
Joe wrote:I bet the "unfit" factor of Beckham doesn't stop Mclaren bringing him on ahead of Bentley...
He will do, and i would too. I don't think bringing Bentley on in place of Wright-Phillips in the 70th minute would have much of an effect.
Judging on Beckhams performance of Friday, I doubt he would have much of an effect either.
But Beckham can sit a bit deeper if he comes on and play pinpoint crosses to crouch, who might just be able to put one in. And when he's playing well he has the ability to win the game with one genious cross or free kick in stoppage time. I'm not saying Bentley couldn't do that too, but in that situation i think Becks would have the bigger impact.
My sentiments exactly with Becks. McClaren must plan on bringing him in in the 60th or so minute for Wright-Phillips if the game is tied. I don't know why you carry David Beckham if you aren't going to use him during games for set pieces.

Not sure why McClaren is so infatuated with Wright-Phillips. I think he is extremely overrated. I'll take Bentley over him any day of the week.

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theadore
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Post by theadore » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:02 pm

:rofl:

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Joe
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Re:

Post by Joe » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:07 pm

theadore wrote::rofl:
I agree!!!!

I realised I wanted us to loose when, after we started losing, every time the camera went onto Mclaren (who incidentally was holding a fucking brolly at a football match) i laughed to myself.

If we had scraped it through, which at 2-2 I thought we might, we would have been stuck with that for the next 3 or so years. Under performing and scraping through a mediocre group. I realised how pathetic we were when Beckham came on off the bench, and everyone in the pub started shouting "come on david"! (in a very "come on Tim" sort of way).

Anyway, what's Mourinho up to at the moment?

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Phil
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Post by Phil » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:12 pm

Mourinho wants a club job :cry:

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Post by Willy » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:13 pm

Terrible. :oops:

Going back to what I said before, take a look at Scotland's quality and ours and see who deserved to go through more. Sure, Scotland didn't deserve it because they didn't get enough points but if you put into context Rovers semi-final against Chelsea, did WE deserve to lose just because we didn't score enough goals? I think most Rovers fans would say we deserved to win that game.

England were shite tonight, the penalty was incredibly harsh on Croatia and the fact we went into the game needing a point was ridiculous to start with. I for one am glad on one hand because we didn't deserve anything but on the other hand it's gonna be pretty crap watching a major tournament when England aren't involved.

Oh well...McClaren out, finally. Let's see who's gonna take us to the world cup. I can bet it won't be an Englishman. However, which manager would be brave/stupid enough to take the job?

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Re:

Post by Willy » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:15 pm

Phil wrote:Mourinho wants a club job :cry:
We can only hope he may change his mind, but I doubt it. He'd be my choice every time. I don't think it will happen though.

We'll have to wait and see. It'll certainly be interesting though.

Bring back Sven? ;) :whistle:

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Post by Rover the Moon » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:23 am

Would Jose make a silk purse out a sows ear?

A shit buttie is a shit buttie no matter how you tart it up. Our players are just not good enough.

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Post by Phil » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:47 am

The players that were picked weren't. Im sure I could have got at least a point. 4-4-2 with some experienced international players, not rocket science.

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Re:

Post by NY Rover » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:58 am

Joe wrote:
theadore wrote::rofl:
If we had scraped it through, which at 2-2 I thought we might, we would have been stuck with that for the next 3 or so years. Under performing and scraping through a mediocre group. I realised how pathetic we were when Beckham came on off the bench, and everyone in the pub started shouting "come on david"! (in a very "come on Tim" sort of way).
It was incredible. First off, I cannot believe David Beckham is still the catalyst of the team. Entirely different side when he trotted out onto the pitch. Secondly, what was McClaren thinking by not starting him? If he's out there, one of those free kicks in the first half is converted for a goal.

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Re:

Post by Joe » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:06 am

Rover the Moon wrote:Would Jose make a silk purse out a sows ear?

A shit buttie is a shit buttie no matter how you tart it up. Our players are just not good enough.
If we had a sows ear, Jose would probably not be able to make a silk purse out of us.

But the fact is we don't have a sows ear or a shit buttie. We have the ingredients for a very good buttie, but Mclaren wasn't a very good chef.

Just compare our player with Croatia's today. I know we were shit, but imo it has a lot to do with the tactics and the motivation. I can't imagine the players having any real respect for Mclaren, he just doesn't seem the type of manager I'd be scared of.

A good manager, who was tactically adept, would have picked a team and formation that would have won today, and in many of the other group games we fucked up.

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Post by Noise » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:11 am

Nice to see croatia had enough sense to bang in a few shots from outside the box to make use of the soggy pitch. Shame we didtry that tactic much.

How the fuck wayne bridge is called a footballer is beyond me.

And even prince william didnt need a sodding umbrella! :roll:

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Post by Dr Rover » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:46 am

Last night showed why I have no interest in England internationals any more. How McClaren could've ever been give such a prestigious job is well beyond me. Look at the mistakes he made last night.

Lets have a look at the team he picked shall we

Scot Carson - Although i rate the guy, he cant get a game for his club side and so has been on loan for the last two years at least

Richards - Is currently playing centre back for his club, asked to play right back

Lescott - Plays left back for his club, asked to play centre back

Campbell - In good form for his club, and was probably the only choice to play there alst night

Bridge - Only gets in the Chelsea team when the rest of the defenders are out injured.

SWP - Ditto (utter dros by the way, never done anything at the highest level)

Gerrard - Has proved he doesnt work well with lampard in the middle

Lampard - Has proved he doesnt work well with Gerrard in the middle

Barry - The only decent midfielder England have seen for the past year, and taken off at half time leaving an already exposed defence in worst trouble

Cole - NOT A LEFT WINGER.

Crouch - Cant get a game for his club, but STILL Englands best player

Subs

Beckham - playing in a micky mouse league and hasn't played a competitive game for circa two months

Defoe - Cant get a game for his club

Bent - Ditto


Now, i thought it was incredibly sad, and funny at the same time, when we were looking for an equaliser in the final 15 minutes, and we had three forward players that have about 10 starts in the premiership between them this season. I mean what the fuck is going on with English football if thats the best we have to offer.

So, what could be the causes of such utter shitness. Could it be that the players simply had an off night - i dont think so as they seem to be having quite a few of those lately. Could it be the injuries - It obviously has an effect but there is still enough quality in English football to get a draw with Croatia. Could it be the manager - ultimately i think it is. He is the one that picks the team, sorts the formation and system. He is the one who the buck stops with, and quite simply, McClaren has been terrible for us.

If I was the manager last night, the first thing I would've realised was that with so many players out injured, the ONE thing the squad needed was a system they all know and understand, and a system that they are comfortable playing with. Not some system that hasnt worked for England at all in the past. I'd have also realised that playing Lampard and Gerrard together in midfield hasnt worked the last 20 times, so why would it magically start to work on the night.

The other thing i think McClaren slipped up on is not looking at other English players in the friendly matches we've had. Why the fuck has Bentley not been given a start yet? Why has he not given Bent and Defoe more game time in the past, if we need to rely on them in big games. WHY THE FUCK DOES HE GIVE SHOREY GAME TIME, AND THEN COMPLETELY IGNORE HIM WHEN WE NEED HIM.

To sum up, we wernt good enough to go through, and i think that is completely down to the manager

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Re:

Post by streakyb » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:55 am

Noise wrote:Nice to see croatia had enough sense to bang in a few shots from outside the box to make use of the soggy pitch. Shame we didtry that tactic much.
Shame we didnt think about closing the players down. Richards should have been closing Krankjar down for the first goal and the player who scored teh 3rd goal should have been closed down.

I think last night though should the importance of using friendlies correctly. We all know Owen and Rooney make Bone China look ultra tough and reliable as neither have managers significant runs for England in qualifiesr or tournaments yet we dont know what to do if they are out.

The same is true of the back 2. If Terry or Rio are out who do we replace them with.

True again in goal. People were worried about Carson inexpereince, again McClarens fault for not giving other goalies good run outs in friendlies.

Also McClaren keeps changing formations and the players look unsettle. Both games we lost against Croatia were in a large part due to McClaren changing formations. Was it any coincidence that when we went 4-4-2 we looked like we had a chance.

Steve is tactically inept and does not know what options he has availiable to him. Can you remain with a manager for who that is true.

So to the future without McClaren. Its not worth talking about one with him as we would havenone.

We should use the next few matches as time to rebuild. Wholesale changes. Stick with 4-4-2. Get new players in and play them with the more established players. Find a good team and stick with it. Even if it means dropping players like Rooney, Owen, Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Ferdninand. None are untouchable, none should be picked just becaus ethey are good players. If they dont work for England, dont pick them.

As for the manager, a foriegn one is the only choice as there are no good English managers, just plenty of good English coaches.

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