Current Events/News

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Rover the Top
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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Rover the Top » Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:58 am

Ethiaa wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:05 am
That's nice. But irrelevant to my statement.

Perhaps if you linked it to penguin migration.
Nah.

If you don't want to hear it for whatever reason, that's fine, your choice. We live in a contrary world where we adhere to what's politically acceptable even when it's detrimental in the long run.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Ethiaa » Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:06 am

Nothing to hear.

Saying some specific things change a fundamental is.. well I'm not sure what it is as I imagine there is intent in it, conscious or otherwise. I've no idea what your intent is.

If you stop doing something which prevents something else without a significant change which will alter the situation (like everyone being dead), then the something else that was being prevented starts again. It's just hard logic.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Rover the Top » Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:13 pm

Ethiaa wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:06 am

If you stop doing something which prevents something else without a significant change which will alter the situation (like everyone being dead), then the something else that was being prevented starts again. It's just hard logic.
No doubt. But doesn't fit the real life situation. It's a massive over-simplification: in the assumption that something in the initial restrictions is solely responsible for the fall in infections over the summer, then again in assuming that removing that something renders the remaining and new measures ineffective, then again in assuming the only effect of that something is to delay the spread of the virus without changing the pattern of how it spreads, especially in relation to the chances of it infecting those most vulnerable to it. Then there's also the significant change in how seasons affect the spread of viruses to consider, for one. As convenient as it would be, it's not a case of we did something then stopped and that explains everything.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:36 pm

Ethiaa wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:35 am
Nah.

It's much much simpler and less involved and frankly less interesting. If you do some stuff to mitigate something and then stop doing it while the something is still there, the mitigation ends. Hardly shocking news.
I think you're being deliberately obtuse, Eth.

Your analogy would apply quite happily to face masks. But not lockdown.

The problem that you haven't acknowledged is that the mitigation of lockdown in and of itself is flawed. As I said, it's more akin to banning everyone from driving anytime someone had a crash; ultimately there's no way to get out of the mitigation: when you release it, it becomes worse than it would have previously. An example of a far better mitigating strategy would be to ban smoking, for example, it has the biggest impact on people under 70 in preventing serious illness from covid. Another would be to use the money that we spent on furlough to quadruple our nursing population.

It's quite obvious why there's a disproportionate increase in coronavirus cases in the north compared to London: when nobody had it in the north we locked down along with London. The number of people catching it in London was way way way higher than reported, as studies that suggest ~80% of people infected are symptom free.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... e-symptoms

It's time that the risk of covid was reassessed. Most people will not be seriously ill, let alone die. However, the mitigation for covid is resulting in 100x the number of people awaiting treatments in hospital, for illnesses that really do kill you like bowel cancer. The WHO have acknowledged that cancer will kill more people than normal this year.... but they tack on "because of COVID-19" rather than "because of our response to COVID-19", and that crucial difference is not being acknowledged.

Ultimately, the covid crisis is a rich white man's crisis, and the crisis is becoming one far more of our own doing than the cause of the actual disease.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:32 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:36 pm

It's quite obvious why there's a disproportionate increase in coronavirus cases in the north compared to London: when nobody had it in the north we locked down along with London. The number of people catching it in London was way way way higher than reported, as studies that suggest ~80% of people infected are symptom free.
You mean it's not just because the naughty northern rebels haven't been following Premier Johnson's totally-effective-and-not-confusing-at-all instructions?

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:18 am

Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:32 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:36 pm

It's quite obvious why there's a disproportionate increase in coronavirus cases in the north compared to London: when nobody had it in the north we locked down along with London. The number of people catching it in London was way way way higher than reported, as studies that suggest ~80% of people infected are symptom free.
You mean it's not just because the naughty northern rebels haven't been following Premier Johnson's totally-effective-and-not-confusing-at-all instructions?
I'm assuming from that you're in favour of keeping the country in complete lockdown until an effective vaccination is available, then? ;)

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:23 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:36 pm
I think you're being deliberately obtuse, Eth.
Doesn't sound like me. But this thread largely consists of attempts to make facts negotiable so I guess obtuse becomes a high level of logic.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:39 am

What facts are being negotiated?

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:45 am

What facts aren't? Pick a page.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:52 pm

Well I know that you've been appear to be trying to dispute a study suggesting that more people will die as a result of a full widespread lockdown than if we had tried to implement a demographically targeted one, and then made a very poor and misrepresentative analogy about safety barriers to back yourself up....

In terms of facts its currently very difficult to even establish if anybody has actually died of coronavirus rather than a plethora of lifestyle choices they had already made, or conditions they already had, or because they were already old and being kept alive by the significant advances in medicine that we've made over the last hundred years or so.

I keep seeing social media comments about any avoidable deaths being unacceptable, but they never seem to acknowledge that sometimes by preventing an avoidable death, that action causes another avoidable death: they aren't always mutually exclusive.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Ethiaa » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:36 pm

Boom.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Gibbon » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:13 pm

Gibbon wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:24 pm
How is the rule of 6 tightening restrictions anyway? We’ve replaced two households and two vectors with up to six people from different households and a possible 6 vectors.

Madness.
I’m still hung up on this. Just how many different groups of six do you think I could see in a day? 😀

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:27 pm

Gibbon wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:13 pm
Gibbon wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:24 pm
How is the rule of 6 tightening restrictions anyway? We’ve replaced two households and two vectors with up to six people from different households and a possible 6 vectors.

Madness.
I’m still hung up on this. Just how many different groups of six do you think I could see in a day? 😀
666

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:31 pm

Ethiaa wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:36 pm
Boom.
Glad you're contributing, Eth.

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Re: Current Events/News

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:32 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:18 am
Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:32 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:36 pm

It's quite obvious why there's a disproportionate increase in coronavirus cases in the north compared to London: when nobody had it in the north we locked down along with London. The number of people catching it in London was way way way higher than reported, as studies that suggest ~80% of people infected are symptom free.
You mean it's not just because the naughty northern rebels haven't been following Premier Johnson's totally-effective-and-not-confusing-at-all instructions?
I'm assuming from that you're in favour of keeping the country in complete lockdown until an effective vaccination is available, then? ;)
Oh absolutely. Your man Starmer simply isn't going far enough with his objections. Close the supermarkets, obvious hotbed for passing on infections that no one is talking about. I'm sure we can all manage without food to stop people dying.

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