Today's random stupidity story...

There must be more to life than football?
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Rover the Top
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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:40 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:42 am
Rover the Top wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:02 am
The fucking stupid thing was joining in the first place without getting public consent. Actually a pretty good example of the mess that can be created when both major parties collude to take democracy off the table.
You mean getting public consent like in the 1975 referendum? The really crazy thing is why we waited so long to confirm membership of the EU (logical continuation of the EC) given there was public approval by 67% for being part of a European project....
Well yes exactly - a precedent was set with the 1975 referendum. When the EEC was swallowed up by a new, wider reaching Union, it should have gone back to the public. Failing to do so created a narrative that people had been duped.

I'd also point out there were other directions the EEC could have "logically" gone in, including remaining as it was or expanding beyond Europe.

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:18 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:41 am


As for "the opposition", it isn't their job to immediately oppose the government on principle. If you notice, they aren't agreeing on everything, they would go far further if they were in government. So really not the same thing. I don't particularly agree with their viewpoint either.
I can accept most of what you say, but I can't recall Labour voting against any of the government's covid restrictions. They certainly didn't the other night, which is obviously what I was referring to. It's not about them automatically opposing him on every occasion. In this situation, they were claiming Boris is a weak leader, but then contributed to a large cross-party majority for his policies. That makes him look quite strong with both sides of parliament backing him. Soundbites about how they'd do more, faster, spending more, but saving money don't really hold much weight when it's not in their gift to determine policy.

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:40 am

Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:40 pm
mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:42 am
Rover the Top wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:02 am
The fucking stupid thing was joining in the first place without getting public consent. Actually a pretty good example of the mess that can be created when both major parties collude to take democracy off the table.
You mean getting public consent like in the 1975 referendum? The really crazy thing is why we waited so long to confirm membership of the EU (logical continuation of the EC) given there was public approval by 67% for being part of a European project....
Well yes exactly - a precedent was set with the 1975 referendum. When the EEC was swallowed up by a new, wider reaching Union, it should have gone back to the public. Failing to do so created a narrative that people had been duped.

I'd also point out there were other directions the EEC could have "logically" gone in, including remaining as it was or expanding beyond Europe.
I'm not sure many people hear that narrative.....

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:42 am

Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:18 pm
mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:41 am


As for "the opposition", it isn't their job to immediately oppose the government on principle. If you notice, they aren't agreeing on everything, they would go far further if they were in government. So really not the same thing. I don't particularly agree with their viewpoint either.
I can accept most of what you say, but I can't recall Labour voting against any of the government's covid restrictions. They certainly didn't the other night, which is obviously what I was referring to. It's not about them automatically opposing him on every occasion. In this situation, they were claiming Boris is a weak leader, but then contributed to a large cross-party majority for his policies. That makes him look quite strong with both sides of parliament backing him. Soundbites about how they'd do more, faster, spending more, but saving money don't really hold much weight when it's not in their gift to determine policy.
It's this magic thing called "compromise". They believe stronger measures should be in place, so voting against some measures being put in place would be cutting off one's own nose....

It's not a difficult concept....

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Gibbon » Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:56 am

Hi everyone! HAPPY CHRISTM….Oh. *retreats slowly*

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Ethiaa » Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:48 am

Tin foil does work well as a Christmas hat though :paranoid:

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:41 pm

There does appear to be an abundance of those around here, that's for sure....

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mcteeth » Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:20 pm

I've missed this :hyper:

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:46 pm

REALLY?!?!?

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mcteeth » Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:57 pm

Yeah it's been a while, I've become nostalgic :cry:

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:11 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:40 am


I'm not sure many people hear that narrative.....
Well, perhaps remind yourself how the generations that voted in 1975 then voted in 2016.

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:49 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:42 am

It's this magic thing called "compromise". They believe stronger measures should be in place, so voting against some measures being put in place would be cutting off one's own nose....

It's not a difficult concept....
Well, it seems to be a tricksy concept for you, as in a "compromise" you ask for concessions from your opponent, not just unconditionally agree to everything. A compromise would have been Labour agreeing to vote with the government only if the government added some of the extra measures they want. If they just whinge and moan about Johnson in interviews, but then vote with him anyway, they're not gaining any influence, there's no reason for the government to pay them heed. Tell you what, why don't we compromise - you say you agree with me, and I'll do nothing. ;)

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:43 am

You don't have to have concessions every time, and it depends who the compromise is with. The compromise can be with your own party in terms of what you're going to let go in order to say, help reduce the number of people who die.....

Sometimes there are bigger things at stake than the games of politics, you seem to forget that almost all the time.

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:45 am

Rover the Top wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:11 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:40 am


I'm not sure many people hear that narrative.....
Well, perhaps remind yourself how the generations that voted in 1975 then voted in 2016.
Just shows that people change their mind; perhaps we should have yet another vote on the topic to see what the mood is now, eh?

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Re: Today's random stupidity story...

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:15 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:45 am
Rover the Top wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:11 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:40 am


I'm not sure many people hear that narrative.....
Well, perhaps remind yourself how the generations that voted in 1975 then voted in 2016.
Just shows that people change their mind; perhaps we should have yet another vote on the topic to see what the mood is now, eh?
Sure, 2057 seems an apt date.

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