Brexit....or in.

There must be more to life than football?

Which way would you vote

Remain and voted remain the first time
8
73%
Leave and voted leave the first time
2
18%
Remain but voted leave the first time
0
No votes
Leave but voted remain the first time
1
9%
Can't be arsed
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 11

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 27991
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:48 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:46 pm

All Johnson has ever been interested in is himself. And it's exactly why he's the last person that should be in charge right now.

As to why I think he had no intention of negotiating a deal that would pass is because it's an impossible task and results in political suicide one way or the other. He would either be seen as the one who put a hard border in Ireland or the one that "betrayed" Brexit by leaving us in the customs union with no say despite saying he intended to do otherwise.
That sounds plausible, except for the fact that by failing to get a deal that passes he'd become the one to put a hard border in Ireland anyway? And the deal he came back with does neither.

User avatar
Gibbon
Promising manager
Posts: 18551
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:54 am
Location: Location: Location
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Gibbon » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:37 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:17 pm
Gibbon wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:17 pm
Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:36 pm
Or we could just write off the idea of a second referendum as something that's only wanted by a fraction of those who voted for the losing option last time, and therefore all would be an unnecessary expense. :yeahright: ;)
Interesting, and a bold claim. Where are you getting your figures may I ask?

This seems to paint a very different picture.
Should there be an election or a referendum?

A different picture has emerged when voters are asked whether they think the next step in the Brexit process should be a general election, or a referendum.

There have been some important differences in the way the polls have asked about this choice. Yet nearly all found that at least slightly more voters would prefer a referendum to an election - though neither possibility was markedly popular.

Both Panelbase and YouGov asked whether an election or a referendum would be the better way of resolving the Brexit deadlock.

They both found about 40% supported a referendum, while about 33% chose an election.
Thanks, I was wondering where I'd read all that. There's some nuance in that they're only considering two options, referendum or election. But that article explicitly backs up what I'm saying? :shrug: Bottom table, 65% & 66% (depending on pollster) of remain voters would prefer a second referendum. And that would only dilute further if you added options such as accepting the deal without any vote or revoking article 50.
Explicitly backs up what you’re saying?
Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:36 pm
Or we could just write off the idea of a second referendum as something that's only wanted by a fraction of those who voted for the losing option last time
I suppose any percentage is technically a fraction, but you used it to imply less than a majority of remain voters wanted a referendum, which seems to be incorrect.

Added to that is the fact that those polls show that a majority of remain and leave voters combined want a referendum over an election?

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 27991
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:54 pm

Gibbon wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:37 pm

I suppose any percentage is technically a fraction, but you used it to imply less than a majority of remain voters wanted a referendum, which seems to be incorrect.

Added to that is the fact that those polls show that a majority of remain and leave voters combined want a referendum over an election?
Eh? Well you've used the word "majority" there with two acceptable but differing meanings (over 50% in the first case/the greater number in the second), but thanks for telling me which definition of "fraction" I was using. :footinmouth:

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 15591
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:29 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:48 pm
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:46 pm

All Johnson has ever been interested in is himself. And it's exactly why he's the last person that should be in charge right now.

As to why I think he had no intention of negotiating a deal that would pass is because it's an impossible task and results in political suicide one way or the other. He would either be seen as the one who put a hard border in Ireland or the one that "betrayed" Brexit by leaving us in the customs union with no say despite saying he intended to do otherwise.
That sounds plausible, except for the fact that by failing to get a deal that passes he'd become the one to put a hard border in Ireland anyway? And the deal he came back with does neither.
Easy to blame the latter on the EU. No, his deal puts a border between mainland UK and NI, arguably just as bad as one on the island of Ireland. Instead of the IRA, we'll end up with the IUA.

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 15591
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:37 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:54 pm
Gibbon wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:37 pm

I suppose any percentage is technically a fraction, but you used it to imply less than a majority of remain voters wanted a referendum, which seems to be incorrect.

Added to that is the fact that those polls show that a majority of remain and leave voters combined want a referendum over an election?
Eh? Well you've used the word "majority" there with two acceptable but differing meanings (over 50% in the first case/the greater number in the second), but thanks for telling me which definition of "fraction" I was using. :footinmouth:
There you go with the "Eh?" responses again. ;)

User avatar
Gibbon
Promising manager
Posts: 18551
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:54 am
Location: Location: Location
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Gibbon » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:38 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:54 pm
Gibbon wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:37 pm

I suppose any percentage is technically a fraction, but you used it to imply less than a majority of remain voters wanted a referendum, which seems to be incorrect.

Added to that is the fact that those polls show that a majority of remain and leave voters combined want a referendum over an election?
Eh? Well you've used the word "majority" there with two acceptable but differing meanings (over 50% in the first case/the greater number in the second), but thanks for telling me which definition of "fraction" I was using. :footinmouth:
Don’t mention it. In the context of your sentence I can’t see why you would word it like that if you weren’t trying to imply that it was a small percentage of remain voters who wanted a referendum. Are you saying that’s not what you meant?


User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 27991
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:58 am

Gibbon wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:38 pm
Rover the Top wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:54 pm
Gibbon wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:37 pm

I suppose any percentage is technically a fraction, but you used it to imply less than a majority of remain voters wanted a referendum, which seems to be incorrect.

Added to that is the fact that those polls show that a majority of remain and leave voters combined want a referendum over an election?
Eh? Well you've used the word "majority" there with two acceptable but differing meanings (over 50% in the first case/the greater number in the second), but thanks for telling me which definition of "fraction" I was using. :footinmouth:
Don’t mention it. In the context of your sentence I can’t see why you would word it like that if you weren’t trying to imply that it was a small percentage of remain voters who wanted a referendum. Are you saying that’s not what you meant?
No I meant "fraction" as in literally a fraction. But I accept the possibility of misinterpretation. Would the word "percentage" be more acceptable? Bearing in mind your statistics are just for a binary choice between a referendum or GE, I think it's credible to believe the number actually seeking a referendum when all paths are considered will be less than half of remain voters anyway.

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 27991
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:24 am

mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:29 pm


Easy to blame the latter on the EU. No, his deal puts a border between mainland UK and NI, arguably just as bad as one on the island of Ireland. Instead of the IRA, we'll end up with the IUA.
Yep, those bloody Irish will find any reason they can to blow each other up without the EU. All hail our Masters in Brussels! :mygod:

:lol:

If being denied political autonomy has a propensity towards terrorism, what's the acronym for the Brexit group going to be?

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 27991
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:24 pm

A referendum to decide what we do 4 months after the leave date. A "credible" leave option his party won't support. I'm almost tempted to vote for him to see how it would all play out in reality . :yeahright:

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 15591
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:10 pm

How do you know his party won't support it?

User avatar
Rover the Top
Experienced manager
Posts: 27991
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by Rover the Top » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:34 pm

mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:10 pm
How do you know his party won't support it?
They've said so. Repeatedly.

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 15591
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:52 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:24 am
mrblackbat wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:29 pm


Easy to blame the latter on the EU. No, his deal puts a border between mainland UK and NI, arguably just as bad as one on the island of Ireland. Instead of the IRA, we'll end up with the IUA.
Yep, those bloody Irish will find any reason they can to blow each other up without the EU. All hail our Masters in Brussels! :mygod:

:lol:

If being denied political autonomy has a propensity towards terrorism, what's the acronym for the Brexit group going to be?
Wow. :shock: :|
Last edited by mrblackbat on Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 15591
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:52 pm

Rover the Top wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:34 pm
mrblackbat wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:10 pm
How do you know his party won't support it?
They've said so. Repeatedly.
But they don't know what that deal is yet, cause it hasn't been put forward yet? Or are you going to fall back on the boring argument that the deal has been negotiated and the EU won't renegotiate... even though they've demonstrated that to be untrue.

User avatar
mrblackbat
Promising manager
Posts: 15591
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:39 am
Contact:

Re: Brexit....or in.

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:10 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50258139

Trump weighs in.

And Boris Johnson didn't make headlines this morning by being found dead in a ditch.

Post Reply