Ukraine/Crimea/Russia

[mrblackbat]

So....the Ukraine effectively stage an uprising against their president. He flees to Russia; Russia invade the Crimea who are an autonomous state and mostly populated by Russians. Lots of accusations of political meddling from both sides.

Not fun.

[Rover the Top]

...We walked through the streets like lottery winners on acid...

[theadore]

nope indeed... holiday plans currently being redrawn. Seems like a bad time to be anything other than russian east of Kiev for a while, even if it does calm down.

Can't claim to have anymore understanding about the causes than the newspapers at the moment, but the ex/current president yanukovych has become more and more like a classic despot as this has developed.

This kind of thing is fast becoming the best argument against fossil fuel reliance as well... no matter what sanctions europe threatens, russia turning off the gas is always going to carry more weight. Seems unlikely that US will have the stomach for intervention either which leaves Ukraine very much on their own.

[mrblackbat]

According to the Beeb, the Russians have issued an ultimatum to the Ukrainian forces in the Crimea to surrender by 5AM (3AM our time) otherwise they will perform a real assault....

[Rover the Top]

Have they started with the fluoridation yet?

[Rover the Top]

Reports of warning shots being fired by Russian soldiers at an air base in Crimea. Oscar Pistorius' lawyer asks if they weren't just hitting a door with a cricket bat...

[Dan]

The reports are true, they did fire. Oscar's neighbour heard it with her window shut.

[Rover the Top]

Impossible. She must have been at least 150m away and everyone knows gunshots can only be heard from 112m away... Plus it's hard to hear anything over that man screaming like a woman...

[Ethiaa]

I think you'll find it was just those Vervet Monkeys screaming

[Rover the Top]

[Dan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26465962

Ukraine crisis: Crimea MPs vote to join Russia

MPs in the southern Ukrainian region of Crimea has voted to formally become part of the Russian Federation.

Parliament said the decision would be put to the Crimean people for their verdict in a referendum on 16 March.

Ukraine's interim government has said any such vote would be unconstitutional.

Crimea, whose population is mostly Russian, has been at the centre of tensions following the fall of Ukraine's pro-Moscow president.

[mrblackbat]

There's a pretty strong case to say that the Ukrainian government is unconstitutional.

[Rover the Top]

But should they keep the pound?

[theadore]

Former Georgia President (I think) on Radio 4 this morning at about 8:15 is worth a listen... Obviously has an axe to grind with Putin, but pretty inflammatory stuff none the less.

Despite the overthrow - the separatism seems to be stemming not from the western looking nature of the new government but that it is acting like a properly mandated government at all. If Ukraine was an african country the same people legitimising its current government would be calling on them to arrange elections. The decision to abolish Russian as a national language is looking more and more idiotic every day.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/04/world ... pt=bosread

interesting read

Also similar sentiments from Jewish leaders:

http://maidantranslations.com/2014/03/0 ... mir-putin/

[mrblackbat]

So, in a high turnout, the overwhelming majority of Crimeans say they want to be part of Russia. Of course, because there's loads of troops around the place, everyone is going to be dubious about the results.

Do we accept that the majority of people in the Crimea genuinely want to be Russian? Obviously the Tatars are pissed off, but then they wouldn't have been able to influence the outcome if we go by official numbers.

Direct sanctions against individuals seems a little wet, but due to the reliance on oil and gas from Russia, will anyone do anything further, and considering the outcome of the referendum, does any other nation have the right to interefere anyway?